Reply to: 6 Hours worth of interview for a humble Test Analyst Job......

[fullyautomatix]

I doubt that any decent developer would consider debugging a ten page printout to be a legitimate way to determine skill at software development, let alone leading a team. That alone would be enough for most people that know what they're doing to walk.

But, FWIW, I did check the organisation concerned out pretty thoroughly prior to this 'interview'. I pulled their last company return (which didn't look too good). More importantly, I spoke to a former colleague of mine that also happened to have worked there (always the best indicator of a place's real culture in my experience). My former colleague told me that it was a pretty tulip place to work, and explained some specific problems they'd encountered, such as their tolerating jerks on their staff.

I've worked all over and know a lot of people in my field. It's pretty rare for me not to know a lot about the organisations and the people I'm meeting before we even clap eyes on one another. Despite the red flags that had been raised by my former colleague on this occasion, I still turned up with an open mind and prepared to treat the process as seriously as I would any other interview. However, I'm not prepared to sit in a freezing cold room performing a nonsensical task that I wouldn't use to assess a junior developer let alone a team lead for anybody.

Trust me you havent been to that many interviews if you have not experienced an interivew where they tell you to

1) Debug code on a sheet of paper.
2) Write an ecommerce app in one hour with no access to internet.
3) Write some mathematical algorithm on a board.
4) Write a lot of code using notepad only.
5) Write some OO based app using Visual studio without using any kind of help with the interview sitting right behind me and breathing down your neck.

Many many more I can cite. Many I passed and many I failed. Writing tons of code on a board was very common and mostly derived from Google and used by others who wanted to pretend to be as cool as Google.

[Gentile]

But you don't seam to know when people are just winding you up

HTH

I don't think you quite understand. These were jam-filled doughnuts we are talking about. They were full of jam. Who would kid around about something like that?

[Gentile]

Isn't this more the case of some companies treat workers like c**p.

If they treat your like that in the interview (e.g. no offer of refreshment, no consideration for you comfort, no effort spent setting up an interview process that tests skills in a meaningful way) then they are almost definitely going to treat you like that if you work there - so why would you want to if you do not have to?

Once you see these signs in the interview process there is no need to go further, you are just wasting everyone's time.

Yup, that pretty much covers it. I'm quite sure that if I'd turned up looking like a tramp they'd have concluded I wasn't taking things seriously. If I'd then handed them a pencil and paper, asked them to write a 500-word essay on what it takes to be a great place to work, then made to leave for the warmth and doughnuts next door (which as I think I did say were jam), I'm pretty sure they'd have told me where to get off. It cuts both ways.

[alreadypacked]

I doubt that any decent developer would consider debugging a ten page printout to be a legitimate way to determine skill at software development, let alone leading a team. That alone would be enough for most people that know what they're doing to walk.

But, FWIW, I did check the organisation concerned out pretty thoroughly prior to this 'interview'. I pulled their last company return (which didn't look too good). More importantly, I spoke to a former colleague of mine that also happened to have worked there (always the best indicator of a place's real culture in my experience). My former colleague told me that it was a pretty tulip place to work, and explained some specific problems they'd encountered, such as their tolerating jerks on their staff.

I've worked all over and know a lot of people in my field. It's pretty rare for me not to know a lot about the organisations and the people I'm meeting before we even clap eyes on one another. Despite the red flags that had been raised by my former colleague on this occasion, I still turned up with an open mind and prepared to treat the process as seriously as I would any other interview. However, I'm not prepared to sit in a freezing cold room performing a nonsensical task that I wouldn't use to assess a junior developer let alone a team lead for anybody.

But you don't seam to know when people are just winding you up

HTH

[Gentile]

You are getting this all wrong to be honest. They are comfortable hiring someone who can decipher the code and find the fault in the code. Presumbaly they have had a past experience where they watched someone code on some video on youtube and then later found them to be a complete nutcase. So from trial and error they have hit upon a technique which they feel is foolproof. They will adopt the same mechanism even if Bill Gates turned up.

I doubt that any decent developer would consider debugging a ten page printout to be a legitimate way to determine skill at software development, let alone leading a team. That alone would be enough for most people that know what they're doing to walk.

But, FWIW, I did check the organisation concerned out pretty thoroughly prior to this 'interview'. I pulled their last company return (which didn't look too good). More importantly, I spoke to a former colleague of mine that also happened to have worked there (always the best indicator of a place's real culture in my experience). My former colleague told me that it was a pretty tulip place to work, and explained some specific problems they'd encountered, such as their tolerating jerks on their staff.

I've worked all over and know a lot of people in my field. It's pretty rare for me not to know a lot about the organisations and the people I'm meeting before we even clap eyes on one another. Despite the red flags that had been raised by my former colleague on this occasion, I still turned up with an open mind and prepared to treat the process as seriously as I would any other interview. However, I'm not prepared to sit in a freezing cold room performing a nonsensical task that I wouldn't use to assess a junior developer let alone a team lead for anybody.

[MyUserName]

Isn't this more the case of some companies treat workers like c**p.

If they treat your like that in the interview (e.g. no offer of refreshment, no consideration for you comfort, no effort spent setting up an interview process that tests skills in a meaningful way) then they are almost definitely going to treat you like that if you work there - so why would you want to if you do not have to?

Once you see these signs in the interview process there is no need to go further, you are just wasting everyone's time.

[fullyautomatix]

No, don't be silly, doomage. It was just that, despite my having provided plenty of code samples online (including on YouTube where they can actually hear me talk and see me type as I build a solution), maybe I really can't write C# after all? So, a 'debug this ten-page un-numbered print out' test in a freezing cold room set by someone that looked like they'd just walked off a camp site was entirely reasonable for a lead dev position. That's why I hurried along to my next interview for a better-paid position that I won.

You are getting this all wrong to be honest. They are comfortable hiring someone who can decipher the code and find the fault in the code. Presumbaly they have had a past experience where they watched someone code on some video on youtube and then later found them to be a complete nutcase. So from trial and error they have hit upon a technique which they feel is foolproof. They will adopt the same mechanism even if Bill Gates turned up.

[psychocandy]

I agree with Gentile. It does seem to be that if they take ages and cause loads of hassle in the interview process then the gig will be a nightmare.

Best gigs I've ever had have been phone interviews. Worst have been where they wanted 1 or 2 face to face. Get to gig and they expect miracles/extra hours etc.

Also, worst interviews are ones where some technical bellend is doing his best to prove he knows more than you. Talking obscure Solaris commands etc. Waste of time usually.

[suityou01]

So, basically, what you're saying is, that you weren't skilled enough to find the bug, realised that task was too difficult for you, panicked, legged it, and blamed your own incompetence on the lack of sartorial elegance of the interviewer.

It does sound like it.

[escapeUK]

Unfortunately, I've found a rule of thumb to be that the pickier a recruitment process is, and the more hoops you're asked to jump through, the less desirable the role on offer will be when the dust settles. I've therefore learned just to walk away at an early stage if things aren't right.

You are so right. I think this applies to all things in life, from selling something online. (The ones that ask the most questions, never ever buy.) To meeting people, the ones that cant send pics because their partner might see are never worth the hassle.

[doomage]

No, don't be silly, doomage. It was just that, despite my having provided plenty of code samples online (including on YouTube where they can actually hear me talk and see me type as I build a solution), maybe I really can't write C# after all? So, a 'debug this ten-page un-numbered print out' test in a freezing cold room set by someone that looked like they'd just walked off a camp site was entirely reasonable for a lead dev position. That's why I hurried along to my next interview for a better-paid position that I won.

I wasn't being silly, I was being puerile, invoking the age old joke about cold rooms and pointy nipples.

[Gentile]

You've mentioned donghnuts twice now. It was the lack of doughnuts wasn't it? Be honest.

Did I mention they were jam doughnuts?

[DimPrawn]

No, NAT, what I'm saying is what I said. How you're treated during the recruitment process is a pretty clear indicator of how you'll be treated on the job. I didn't apply for a role debugging print outs in a freezing cold room without so much as being offered a coffee, whilst a woman dressed like a tramp and clearly not taking the process as seriously as I had sat in a warm room next door eating doughnuts.

I'm confident enough to walk any time I feel an interview process is disrespectful, whether or not I could I just take the easy route and play ball if I were that desperate, safe in the knowledge that I'll find more mutually-respectful and better-remunerated work elsewhere.

You've mentioned donghnuts twice now. It was the lack of doughnuts wasn't it? Be honest.

[Gentile]

I thought it was something to do with the cold room and holes in the in the interviewers jumper.

No, don't be silly, doomage. It was just that, despite my having provided plenty of code samples online (including on YouTube where they can actually hear me talk and see me type as I build a solution), maybe I really can't write C# after all? So, a 'debug this ten-page un-numbered print out' test in a freezing cold room set by someone that looked like they'd just walked off a camp site was entirely reasonable for a lead dev position. That's why I hurried along to my next interview for a better-paid position that I won.

[doomage]

Oh indeed, it's been my experience as well, and I've walked out of interviews before. I was just divulging the real reason she walked away.

I thought it was something to do with the cold room and holes in the in the interviewers jumper.