Reply to: This 'Ere Raid in Forest Gate

[sunnysan]

Context

Well if you think about it there are many countries in the world where unprovoked authorities can barge into your life and **** it up, for no apparent reason and with no consequence to the offending authority.

We are lucky in this country to have the albeit increasingly shakey relationship between state and media that although allegiances are somtimes blurred, can in itself protect people who are victims of a systemic blunder. At the same time it also promotes indecisiveness and lack of coherent action owing to an overeliance on public opinion to justify an action or policy.

I think it could be feasible that the incident occured becuase of counterintelligence given to MI5 etc by people sympathetic to the Islamic extremist movement becuase if you look at the likely outcome of the event and who will beneift more, it will probably be them.

This blunder and many more like it, will play right into theie hands and go further to isolate and politicise UK muslims and do more to radicalise the minds of the easily influenced.

If the guys are innoncent, I feel sorry for them and hope that the system will protect them, but I think the possiblity that they where set up is as feasible as the possiblity that they genuinely intended to commit a terrorist act.

[Tex]

Hey Fool

You've been watching too many episodes of the A-Team, Bogey.

[meridian]

Possibly...

1) Gun aimed by copper at 'bloke A'

2) 'Bloke B' struggles with copper holding gun

3) BANG! 'bloke A' shot in shoulder

Or just as likely...

1) Young copper high on adrenalin and testosterone barges into flat, certain that there is a cyanide-suicide-type plot inside because his senior officer said so

2) Brown bloke stumbles down stairs to see what the commotion is, carrying nothing more dodgy than a toothbrush

3) BANG! 'bloke A' only shot in the shoulder instead of the head because copper can't point straight

[bogeyman]

At the moment I'm more interested to know why the Police shot this guy ? (if they did).

Possibly...

1) Gun aimed by copper at 'bloke A'

2) 'Bloke B' struggles with copper holding gun

3) BANG! 'bloke A' shot in shoulder

[BobTheCrate]

I'm reserving my own judgement on this particular incident. The number of intelligence cock-ups has not IMO reached a particularly embarassing or worrying level. Not withstanding my concerns at the erosion of civil protections and ever increasing Police powers.

At the moment I'm more interested to know why the Police shot this guy ? (if they did).

[bogeyman]

Sound like the police in the 70's.

They had very dangerous stairs in the those days.

I think they have improved since the 70's.

In (about) 1973 is was a mere lad, going around town and getting fairly pissed (not by today's standards) with my mates.

One night, just me and one other lad were enjoying a few bevies and left the pub about an hour before closing time. A big fat copper stopped us, for no reason whatsoever and demanded to know who we were, where we were going and so on - in a very beligerant fashion. We grudgingly answered plod's questions and started to walk home. I, in a moment of teenage angst, muttered something about 'fascists', or 'police state' (can't remember) but next thing fatty plod is pounding after us, pulls me up and head butts me - causing me nose to bleed profusely - and his helmet to fall off.

I enquired why this action was necessary, and he said "because I am the law and I can do what I like".

Needless to say, this informed my opinion of the police 'service' for many years after.

[Mailman]

Better to be safe than sorry...round em up and worry about sorting out the innocent from the guilty afterwards.

Mailman

[Emperor Dalek]

Didn't they have "specific and credible intelligence" on a plot to bomb Old Trafford when they rounded up dozens of people in the north-west? Every single one quietly released without charge as I recall.

Still, it might have livened up the Theatre of Silence a bit.

[TheMonkey]

Nah it's all a concoction of the Ministry of Peace

[threaded]

I am not saying it is not an immensely hard job to do but you have to wonder why M15 and scotland yard, after the Cold War and NI conflict, are makiing so many fcukups.

IR35

Jeez, you kids know nowt.

[sunnysan]

Likely outcome

Well I think it will go very silent on the media front and the guys will be realeased without charge and they will come to some sort of "damage control" deal.

Then, back to reality, we are dealing with 2 massive state organisations who keep on giving us figures on how many terrorist cells they suspect are operating in the UK and how dangerous they are and it this stage they have;

1) Let homemade bombs go off in the underground
2) Shot an innnocent Brazilian man in the head
3) Arrested 2 (It appears to be innocent) kids after storming a house with 250 police officers and shooting one "by accident"
4) Numerous low profile arrests

I am not saying it is not an immensely hard job to do but you have to wonder why M15 and scotland yard, after the Cold War and NI conflict, are makiing so many fcukups.

They are obviously pretty desparate to establish some kind of credibility with Joe public again which I think has probably backfired again, as if acting on "specific intelligence" they now look like clowns.

Seems to me that like everywhere else in the state they have beaurocratic and structural problems which prevent the the organisations from sharing information and operating effeciently.

[monkeyboy]

Sound like the police in the 70's.

They had very dangerous stairs in the those days.

[The Master]

But that potentially incentivises the police to charge you with anything as no doubt they will have Whitehall set targets to meet in this respect. Heaven forbid, they might even trump up a charge. Or, if you are sufficiently low profile, just "disappear" you.

[AtW]

What do the police care. We taxpayers will pay for it!

This scheme would allow to push through detention with charging of 3-6 months, I certainly would be okay to take that risk so long as I know that I will be automatically compensated for any mistake, so long as they dont shoot me dead! The police on the other hand may have their bonus adjusted depending on wastage of money as determined by fruitless arrests.

[The Master]

And any inconvenient suspects will just disappear on one of the CIA's rendition flights.