Reply to: Buying a house - falls over at the last minute (Building Reg Approval)

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

And the house is back on. Survey done, price discounted and we are nearly there!

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

In England you can pull out of a property deal any time until the contracts are exchanged. It doesn't matter how much money the parties have spent so the other solicitor was right in telling you to get lost.

In this case the issue is the vendor and the estate agent both misrepresented the property. This is a completely different law to the one on purchasing property.

As the estate agent was aware the property had a bedroom which legally cannot be called or used as a bedroom, then it sounds like they deliberately misrepresented the property.

Most estate agents are careful where there are issues with things like this to not state in the advert that the room is a bedroom. They may take a photograph and say it's a storage room just to protect themselves for any possible legal action.

WSS (thanks Sue).

Furthermore they can state it as a room (but not a bedroom) but clarify it does not have planning permission.

The last point you mentioned there is spot on - I don't for a second believe that the estate agent didn't know what they are doing. If a newbie like me can figure out the law after 1 experience then an experienced estate agent will bloody well know what the law is. This is why I am so annoyed at the whole thing.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

So that's not the vendors issue is it. They're selling a home which meets the criteria of a home. You want a BTL which doesn't meet the criteria. They don't care.

I'd find out the cost of the retrospective building regs and drop your offer accordingly. If they don't accept you lose 1k and they lose their costs so far.

I once had someone pull out of a property deal because they'd changed their minds. Cost be a 1K. I got my solicitor to write a letter, they're solicitor said get lost.

Sure it meets the criteria of a home but not at the number of bedrooms specified:

From the trading standards website:

Extensions and loft conversions:

Conversions have created problems where an estate agent has described a room as a bedroom, but it has not been subject to planning or building regulation approval and, thus, is not suitable to be used as such. If a vendor is unable to supply details, then the planning office should be approached for confirmation. If you are unable to establish that the extension was correctly approved, then great care needs to be exercised - either describing the room as a boarded loft area, or stating clearly that planning permission for the room has not been provided

So could I legitimately resell/rent out the house as an X bed house - absolutely not. The loft was converted so long ago that it would require huge amounts of work - which is way they are refusing the retrospective building regs check.

[SueEllen]

I once had someone pull out of a property deal because they'd changed their minds. Cost be a 1K. I got my solicitor to write a letter, they're solicitor said get lost.

In England you can pull out of a property deal any time until the contracts are exchanged. It doesn't matter how much money the parties have spent so the other solicitor was right in telling you to get lost.

In this case the issue is the vendor and the estate agent both misrepresented the property. This is a completely different law to the one on purchasing property.

As the estate agent was aware the property had a bedroom which legally cannot be called or used as a bedroom, then it sounds like they deliberately misrepresented the property.

Most estate agents are careful where there are issues with things like this to not state in the advert that the room is a bedroom. They may take a photograph and say it's a storage room just to protect themselves for any possible legal action.

[MarillionFan]

Difference in cost is huge between X and X-1. Doesn't need planning permission as it is so long ago but would require retrospective building regs to rent out.

So that's not the vendors issue is it. They're selling a home which meets the criteria of a home. You want a BTL which doesn't meet the criteria. They don't care.

I'd find out the cost of the retrospective building regs and drop your offer accordingly. If they don't accept you lose 1k and they lose their costs so far.

I once had someone pull out of a property deal because they'd changed their minds. Cost be a 1K. I got my solicitor to write a letter, they're solicitor said get lost.

[SueEllen]

They didn't do the extension - Zoopla and other sites show when they bought it and they seem to have bought it as an X bedroom house - obviously they have been mislead in the first place but doesn't mean that they can pass that onto the next guy.

They wouldn't have been mislead if they had a proper survey i.e. not just a valuation survey.

Anyway I've sent you a PM on how to get in touch with Trading Standards in your area, as it sounds now like a really easy case for them to deal with.

I would phone them up to see if they sound interested before going to the property ombudsman.

Estate agents don't have to be a member of the ombudsman scheme and as it's voluntary I doubt they would reprimand the estate agent properly.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

so they knew all along of course. they wanted to fob their cheapskate diy cock-up onto you. i'd say that was a 1k well spent.

They didn't do the extension - Zoopla and other sites show when they bought it and they seem to have bought it as an X bedroom house - obviously they have been mislead in the first place but doesn't mean that they can pass that onto the next guy.

[DS23]

EDIT: Sack it, we decided it is not worth proceeding here because they already refused retrospective building reg approval and we put an offer on the basis of it being an X bed house rather than an X-1 bed House

so they knew all along of course. they wanted to fob their cheapskate diy cock-up onto you. i'd say that was a 1k well spent.

[Old Hack]

TYhats the start of thr process and I would do it.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

For anybody following this - I have contacted the Property Ombudsman and they have advised I send a complaint to the agent directly for which they must reply within 8 weeks.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Just vented at the estate agent - stated the following trading standards:

Extensions and loft conversions:

Conversions have created problems where an estate agent has described a room as a bedroom, but it has not been subject to planning or building regulation approval and, thus, is not suitable to be used as such. If a vendor is unable to supply details, then the planning office should be approached for confirmation. If you are unable to establish that the extension was correctly approved, then great care needs to be exercised - either describing the room as a boarded loft area, or stating clearly that planning permission for the room has not been provided

Estate Agent: "Well I disagree it is an X bedroom house"
Me: "You have incorrectly advertised this as an X bed house and don't tell me that with your experience and knowledge of properties you didn't know this"
Estate Agent: "So how would you like to proceed"

Then I ended up having a right go at them for misleading me blah blah. Bunch of To$$ers

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Anybody know a good structural engineer who would be able to fully assess building regulations compliance? Somebody in South Manchester or close by ideally...

EDIT: Sack it, we decided it is not worth proceeding here because they already refused retrospective building reg approval and we put an offer on the basis of it being an X bed house rather than an X-1 bed House

[DS23]

good. they were trying it on. they have probably worked out now that if you walk away and dish the dirt on the regs / agent they will have lost the sale and be back to square -10. the council will know, the agent will refuse to sell as a +1 house.... now you are in control.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Absolutely - you took the words out of my mouth. Thanks BP for your response but my previous request was for me to get the building surveyed to see if it complied with building regulations and if not how much it would cost to get it to comply - this would have to be at the vendor's expense though. So far they have refused this.

And now they accept

[BrilloPad]

That's a tricky one. First, you'd have to pay for Building regs to visit (and get the owners to agree to access), then acsses that report (which would take a while to deliver), and then get estimates to fix works needed in order for it to pass, as it would have to pass todays building regs, not the ones in 93 or whenever it was built. These also now include P3 or the electrical ones too, which I would venture they dont. You also have to have emergency egress now, which you never used to have to.

I would get in a builder. Though I know a couple of builders very well who know the building regs inside out.

It is certainly interesting how building regs keep changing. Our boiler failed on yearly gas inspection. The overflow pipe for hot water now has to have a u-bend at the end to point the hot water back to the wall!