Reply to: Cameron's cunning plan to create jobs and reduce red tape

[swamp]

The Cameron government has actually been worse for contractors than the last shambolic Labour administration.

[Scoobos]

Moral outrage does not make donations to parties.

HTH

I'm starting to side with you more and more Corruption appears to be rife ... Even our coppers are being bought.

[Scoobos]

My experiences are very different than what is being painted here.

I know of 40 FOR SURE ICT people who came to Leeds to do some coding for a large US multinational back in 2009.

They moved into 3 properties - so that's > ten a house. The project lasted 12 weeks - 3 years later they are still in Leeds. I know of at least 18 of them moved to a different job at a different client entirely - how the hell that is possible is anyone's guess.

I wrote to my MP , the PCG and even a newspaper - the only feedback I got was from an MP who was saying that because they were working on a project for the NHS it was helping to drive down costs, in the tax payers benefit.

What a load of tosh...

I'm not a racist man by any means, but what really annoys me is how difficult and bureaucratic it's been for me to get the right to work in any country outside the EU and how easy it appears to be for anyone, from anywhere to come to the UK and then stay beyond the agreed terms.

Freedom of movement within the EU I can handle, as it comes with fringe benefits (although many can argue otherwise) but I see no benefit whatsoever in ICT , other than to global shareholders - not the British public.

Even Canada took steps to go protectionist, in 2008....

In Oz, I wasn't even allowed to leave to go on to New Zealand because I left 1 day before my Aussie Visa expired - they forced me to pay full price for a ticket back to the UK in case NZ wouldn't let me in - as they didn't want me bouncing back.. I'm a white British national if that's relevant - so it goes to show how "protectionist" other countries are.

[AtW]

What I don't understand is the lack of moral outrage, I see little difference between the treatement of ICTs and slavery

Moral outrage does not make donations to parties.

HTH

[bobspud]

What I don't understand is the lack of moral outrage, I see little difference between the treatement of ICTs and slavery

There is no difference, because thats exactly what globalisation is.

[amcdonald]

What I don't understand is the lack of moral outrage, I see little difference between the treatement of ICTs and slavery

[AtW]

It's worse than that, immigrants not only have to bear our living costs, but have to pay UK taxes unlike ICTs

Exactly - which is why you don't hear foreign companies complain too much about work permits - ICT route suits them much better.

Contrary to what SueEllen thinks it's much better strategically for Indian company to bring in ICTs who won't have a chance to get UK passport - why would they lose somebody who got experience here but if they are free they'd provide competition to them in the first place, if they have to go back home after 6-12 months then they would be ok with level of wage that is good THERE, not HERE.

ICT should only be possible for those who have high salary - £50k minimum possibly £100k or more - if somebody is that needed they'll be paid appropriately.

[amcdonald]

The whole purpose of ICT is to undercut locals massively - this requires making sure the person on ICT goes back because otherwise they'd want much higher salary if they were on work permit, desire to settle means those who want it have to accept high cost base of this country, taxes etc - ICT isn't just easier but also more convinient for those companies.

So the truth is ICT isn't really immigration problem - it's an unfair competition/dumping problem, this makes it much worse than immigration.

It's worse than that, immigrants not only have to bear our living costs, but have to pay UK taxes unlike ICTs

[SueEllen]

The whole purpose of ICT is to undercut locals massively - this requires making sure the person on ICT goes back because otherwise they'd want much higher salary if they were on work permit, desire to settle means those who want it have to accept high cost base of this country, taxes etc - ICT isn't just easier but also more convinient for those companies.

It doesn't work like that.

Unless the permanent staff at the company are a majority of UK nationals who decided they don't like their ICT invaders so make their lives hell, they all want to stay and get a British passport.

A British passport means you can go and live in a whole load of countries much easier after you get your relatives in the UK.

The only ones who want to go back are the very middle class ones who are reasonably well connected.

So the truth is ICT isn't really immigration problem - it's an unfair competition/dumping problem, this makes it much worse than immigration.

It's both.

It's a shame we can't get Indian or Eastern European ministers over to work for us. Then the cabinet will realise that what they are doing is wrong once they can't get a job.

[AtW]

How is someone on an ICT NOT a prospective immigrant...... Every single person I've seen ICT'd over the past 4 years has stayed, unless they wanted to return home.

The whole purpose of ICT is to undercut locals massively - this requires making sure the person on ICT goes back because otherwise they'd want much higher salary if they were on work permit, desire to settle means those who want it have to accept high cost base of this country, taxes etc - ICT isn't just easier but also more convinient for those companies.

So the truth is ICT isn't really immigration problem - it's an unfair competition/dumping problem, this makes it much worse than immigration.

[Scoobos]

My hatred grows stronger, they must think we are completely stupid. To resurrect an old thread:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...-warns-uk.html

When you look that we're giving assurances that we'll keep the doors open, and then effectively bypassing the controls we currently have - am I a pessimist to think we're getting done over?

Our IT companies may relocate to other European countries, India warns UK - The Times of India

"However, Osborne assured Sharma that the British government has decided not to make any change in the 'intra-company transfers' for the next two years. The proposal had upset the Indian IT industry and the government as it meant that the professionals on intra company transfers to UK would be treated "prospective immigrants"."

How is someone on an ICT NOT a prospective immigrant...... Every single person I've seen ICT'd over the past 4 years has stayed, unless they wanted to return home.

[Diver]

What makes you say that?

[AtW]

The existing border guards haven't exactly been doing a good job have they.

What makes you say that?

[AtW]

Pretty pathetic plans - is this the best he can do?

Warning companies that visas about to expire

Every sane person with a work visa would keep a close eye on when it expires because it's that person who gets shafted not the company.

[Doggy Styles]

Be fair. The existing border guards haven't exactly been doing a good job have they.