Reply to: Please sign

[Disappointed]

compared to the £6K that a full time student will have to find with no income.

As far as I understand students don't have to pay any student fees until after they've graduated and started earning over a certain threshold.

Though as far as I understand, quite a few prospective students don't understand this and so decide against university since they think that they can't afford it. Probably for the best though, if they can't figure out how the student fees work, they might have problem with getting a degree...

[mudskipper]

The reason you were subsidised is that previous governments believed that the country needs an educated work force to complete with other developed nations, so making courses cheap to do would encourage more adults to do them.

However you could argue that what's the point of a pensioner being subsidised when they are not likely to use it in a job ever?*
Least with the unemployed and people of working age there is a chance they could use the skill in they learnt for a job.

*BTW I know the benefits of pensioners doing courses. Though it's not immediately apparent to people.

OU students will now be able to get student loans. Previously, there were means tested bursaries. For pensioners (many of whom were previously paying fees), that presumably means they can get a loan to cover their fees knowing they'll never be earning over the 21K threshold to pay it back.

[SueEllen]

So really the petition is "I want to have fun, but somebody else should pay for it".

My council-run German course has gone up from £80 per term to £130 this year, because the subsidies have been removed. But then as an employed and reasonably well paid person (by permie standards anyway), why was I being subsidised by the state? I have no problem with the unemployed, or pensioners, or anyone else deserving getting a discount, but I'm quite happy to (and capable of) paying my own way.

The reason you were subsidised is that previous governments believed that the country needs an educated work force to complete with other developed nations, so making courses cheap to do would encourage more adults to do them.

However you could argue that what's the point of a pensioner being subsidised when they are not likely to use it in a job ever?*
Least with the unemployed and people of working age there is a chance they could use the skill in they learnt for a job.

*BTW I know the benefits of pensioners doing courses. Though it's not immediately apparent to people.

[SueEllen]

+1

Not that I've ever seen any Open University degree-toting worker as "competition".

There are OU graduates working as contractors. I've worked with a couple - they did Maths.

One did the course while bringing up her children. The fee increase will stop people like her doing a degree as while she would have been legible for student loans would you really want to be paying your own loan fees back plus subsidising your children's education when you don't know what jobs you can get?

[mudskipper]

Don't get me wrong -there's plenty of people are doing OU for vocational reasons too. On my course it seems to be around 40(vocational)/60(personal), but it's an art history course. I suspect if you look at curriculum subjects there's a much higher percentage of vocational.

Perhaps you're right - the demographic may change from people who, for whatever reason, didn't/can't/won't study at traditional universities, to those that would have.

But 2.5K does seem excessive for the amount of tutor time (approx 12 hours of face to face) you get compared to a bricks and mortar uni. I have to say until all this kicked off, I didn't realise the £700 I currently pay was subsidised.

[VectraMan]

I think that's the argument. Not necessarily that the older students can't afford it, but that, because they're doing it for personal fulfilment (fun), they won't be able to justify the outlay.

I know I would have never considered signing up for my first OU course, not really knowing what to expect, if the cost had been 2.5K. I expect that's true for a huge number of students.

So really the petition is "I want to have fun, but somebody else should pay for it".

My council-run German course has gone up from £80 per term to £130 this year, because the subsidies have been removed. But then as an employed and reasonably well paid person (by permie standards anyway), why was I being subsidised by the state? I have no problem with the unemployed, or pensioners, or anyone else deserving getting a discount, but I'm quite happy to (and capable of) paying my own way.

It seems to me the OU should have no trouble supporting itself, especially now the traditional way of getting a degree is so potentially ruinous.

[Zippy]

[escapeUK]

My feeling is that whilst I would like further education to be free (it was for me), in tough economic times it's a tough sell and there are more important priorities.

This was a good idea till people who weren't that academic started doing degrees in worthless subjects paid for by the tax payer. As usual the feckless have ruined the system for everyone else.

[MarillionFan]

[Zippy]

+1

Not that I've ever seen any Open University degree-toting worker as "competition".

They don't tend to apply for jobs in MCDonalds.

[mudskipper]

And surely most OU students are older people doing it for "fun", rather than 18 year olds looking for a boost in their career, so the argument that it's for the good of the country and boosts tax revenues is weaker for OU students than regular students.

I think that's the argument. Not necessarily that the older students can't afford it, but that, because they're doing it for personal fulfilment (fun), they won't be able to justify the outlay.

I know I would have never considered signing up for my first OU course, not really knowing what to expect, if the cost had been 2.5K. I expect that's true for a huge number of students.

[VectraMan]

I think the difference is the nature of Open University students. A £2500 per module fee (you need 6 modules for a degree - 2 equates to a year's full time study) will stop people signing up in the first place.

Except most OU students will be working full time elsewhere, and so a £2.5K per year fee is not such a big deal compared to the £6K that a full time student will have to find with no income. And surely most OU students are older people doing it for "fun", rather than 18 year olds looking for a boost in their career, so the argument that it's for the good of the country and boosts tax revenues is weaker for OU students than regular students.

My feeling is that whilst I would like further education to be free (it was for me), in tough economic times it's a tough sell and there are more important priorities. Presumably the £46bn or so that Britain pays in interest every year could comfortably cover the costs of free higher education, which puts things into perspective.

[mudskipper]

It doesn't say anything about the government killing off the OU.

We've already had riots in the streets over tuition fees, so a politely worded e-petition seems a little redundant.

I think the difference is the nature of Open University students. A £2500 per module fee (you need 6 modules for a degree - 2 equates to a year's full time study) will stop people signing up in the first place.

[VectraMan]

It doesn't say anything about the government killing off the OU.

We've already had riots in the streets over tuition fees, so a politely worded e-petition seems a little redundant.

[KentPhilip]

Nope. Won't be signing. Means less competition for us contractors.

Now on your bike your lefty handwringing whinger.

+1

Not that I've ever seen any Open University degree-toting worker as "competition".