Reply to: Oh Dear: Spot the difference (it's 3mm)

[OwlHoot]

My son quite enjoyed going around Edinburhg castle actually. Not everything is gained from sight. He enjoyed learning about the history of the place, yes he could have got that from a book but it means more if you can actualy feel the stones, climb the steps and smell the smells of the place. Obviously he prefers things like roller coasters to castles, but then so do most kids.

Lincoln Castle, and the cathedral, is well worth a visit if you're in the vicinity.

Oh and the roof tour of Lincoln cathedral starts at 2:00pm - We missed the fecking thing by five minutes when I visited with some friends last year!

Talking about smells, according to today's Sunday Telegraph the Tower of London plans to introduce "mediaevil" smells such as wood smoke and baking bread. But I doubt the result will be anything like what was probably the hellish reek of the place at the time in reality!

[BoredBloke]

In 2000 south west trains were granted an exemption untill 2004. They originally asked for

"Exemption is sought till 2015 as this is the predicted half-life refurbishment date for the class 458."

They got one to mid 2004, when they applied for an exemption again and got one up to 31st July 2006.

So in 2000 they were made aware of the issue and have had 6 years to put this right. They also state that the half life for the trains was not untill 2015. Presumably they only only have 6 months left on their lease.

This all looks like they wanted to avoid the cost and were playing the system to do so.

Yes I agree with others here that a non complient sign is better than no sign, but there has to be a standards put into the legislation and these have to be enforced, otherwise there is no point having the legislation in the first place.

"I mean, what's the point going on a day trip to Leed's Castle when you can't see the fekking thing, anyway ? "

My son quite enjoyed going around Edinburhg castle actually. Not everything is gained from sight. He enjoyed learning about the history of the place, yes he could have got that from a book but it means more if you can actualy feel the stones, climb the steps and smell the smells of the place. Obviously he prefers things like roller coasters to castles, but then so do most kids.

[Fungus]

Actually the height of the letters was only one issue. Apparnatly the contrast of red on black is supposed to be difficult for those with sight issues and the decenders on the letters were scrunched making them hard to distinguish. So while it is a good headline that these trains were being chopped due to the letters being 3mm too short, infact it is not the case. Oh that and the fact that they have had 7-8 years to correct the situation.

That assumes they were aware of the issue. There seem to be so many rules and regulations that it can be a nightmare. I was talking to the head of a recruiting agency and he said that government regulations are costing a fortune in extra work costs.

[Board Game Geek]

To be honest, if I was 100% blind, I don't think I'd want to go anywhere near a tube / train station, if only for the inherent risks.

I think I'd be quite happy and secure staying at home, thank you very much.

I mean, what's the point going on a day trip to Leed's Castle when you can't see the fekking thing, anyway ? Like.......duh !

I'd also be really fekked off with people who said "Come on BGG, we're going to the Tower of London today, and you will have a really good time..." and I'd be like..."no you feckwit, I can't fecking see, so you could plonk me down in your neighbour's back garden, coz I couldn't tell the fekking difference anyway)......grrrrrrrrrr.....

Thankfully, the research in to cyber-eye technology and insect-eye genetics might render blindness and poor sight a moot point.

[Gold Dalek]

"
The woman from the disability group was on the radio last night and stated that they were red on black. The fact of the matter is, they are in breach of the regulations and so should be forced to make the changes. It is public transport afterall and as such should be accessable to all, not just those with fully functioning eyes.

They are accessable to all - although they do discriminate against the bed-ridden as no provision is made for them. I have seen blind & visually impaired people travelling on the old slam door trains into London...and guess what, they are able to use the new trains too!

What you really mean is some company has the affrontary to challenge the disabled brown shirts and not jump through the hoops quick enough

Correct me on the figures, but I believe the numbers for the whole of the UK is 150k for totally blind & 150k for partially sighted. If the figure for totally blind are excluded – all this fuss is being made for .0023% of the population who may or may not choose to use the train rather than the alternate public funded means of transport provided to the disabled- or is it the principle you are mostly concerned about?

[privateeye]

They knew the signs were not compliant 1 year after the trains were ordered.

They were within the law when they were ordered - how many times do I hear contractors complaining about laws being applied retrospectively.

The woman from the disability group was on the radio last night and stated that they were red on black.

I was on the train last night and could see they were green so I would not believe anything from the people creating the fuss now. It was obvious she does not use the line to know the true facts. There are other alternatives - the guard announces each stop and it is a clear PA system, and anyone can ask to be especially looked after by the guard to ensure safety and getting off at the correct stop. The claims SWT have not done enough are not true, I think the complainants are just self-promoting their cause and are unwilling to accept any viable alternative - they would probably complain if the letters were to big.

Everyone seems to think that moth balling these trains is going to punish SWT - its the passengers who will be punished. We already are having to live with the closure for the upgrade of the Waterloo and City Line at the other end. Removal of these trains as well will severely put peoples jobs at risk unless 10,000+ people start driving to London each day.

[BoredBloke]

"The trains in question are also planned to be withdrawn by SWT in 6 months with new compliant trains. SWT are reluctant to spend money upgrading trains that will be scrapped shortly. It sounds like those protesting are just being awkward and the colour is green on black on all the trains I've been on."

But they still have been in breach of the legislation forthe past 7 or 8 years. What is the point of making legislation if it is not enforced. They knew the signs were not compliant 1 year after the trains were ordered. Since then they have 'worked' with the disability groups to resolve the matter. You and I both know that their idea of 'working' was to drag things out so that they would not have to incurr the cost of changing the signs. In this case it seems that they gambled and lost.

The woman from the disability group was on the radio last night and stated that they were red on black. The fact of the matter is, they are in breach of the regulations and so should be forced to make the changes. It is public transport afterall and as such should be accessable to all, not just those with fully functioning eyes.

[privateeye]

Actually the height of the letters was only one issue. Apparnatly the contrast of red on black is supposed to be difficult for those with sight issues and the decenders on the letters were scrunched making them hard to distinguish. So while it is a good headline that these trains were being chopped due to the letters being 3mm too short, infact it is not the case. Oh that and the fact that they have had 7-8 years to correct the situation.

The trains in question are also planned to be withdrawn by SWT in 6 months with new compliant trains. SWT are reluctant to spend money upgrading trains that will be scrapped shortly. It sounds like those protesting are just being awkward and the colour is green on black on all the trains I've been on.

[BoredBloke]

Actually the height of the letters was only one issue. Apparnatly the contrast of red on black is supposed to be difficult for those with sight issues and the decenders on the letters were scrunched making them hard to distinguish. So while it is a good headline that these trains were being chopped due to the letters being 3mm too short, infact it is not the case. Oh that and the fact that they have had 7-8 years to correct the situation.

[Sergeant Apone]

a steady supply of foreign criminals raping and killing us this type of story is meaningless. The HMG department that stopped the trains are amateurs (probably filled with scientists) the home office that ensures that brits are raped and killed are the ones you should worry about.

Have you been on the pop, Vista?

Try thinking about Janey. You'll feel much better for it.

[vista]

AS long as we have

28 trains withdrawn as disability groups complain that letters on signs are too small

RAIL passengers are used to bizarre excuses for delays or overcrowding, but even the longest-suffering commuter will be stunned by the latest reason to be given by South West Trains.
It is having to withdraw a modern fleet from one of its busiest routes because the letters on information screens are 3mm too small to comply with disability regulations.

The digital displays in each carriage, which show the stations that the train will stop at, are supposed to have letters at least 35mm high. The 28 trains in the Juniper fleet, introduced only seven years ago by SWT, have 32mm-high lettering.

The Government’s disability advisers have persuaded ministers that the trains must be mothballed, even though thousands of passengers on the Reading to Waterloo route may have to cram on to shorter trains as a result.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...155360,00.html

Milan.

a steady supply of foreign criminals raping and killing us this type of story is meaningless. The HMG department that stopped the trains are amateurs (probably filled with scientists) the home office that ensures that brits are raped and killed are the ones you should worry about.

[OwlHoot]

sorry threaded these trains were made before the regulations...

'SWT said that it would cost £750,000 to install new screens. It was unwilling to pay this to extend the trains’ service by six months before returning them to Porterbrook, the leasing company that owns them.

The Junipers were ordered in 1997, a year before the existing rules on letter size were agreed. ',

Milan.

Can't they just glue flat Fresnel strip lenses over each line to make the letters appear slightly larger?

[privateeye]

Back to the train signs for a moment - the directors of this rail company are supposed to be running a business. They've had eight years to spend a meagre £750,000 to comply with regulations. Now they might lose more than that amount because those trains cannot run. To me, that is bad decision-making.

I'm with TonyE on this one - if you let it go at 3mm this week, it will be 10mm next.

That's quite apart from whether the regulations are worthy or not. For what it costs, I cannot believe some of the comments from you lot in here about pandering to the lowest denominator regarding aids for disabled people. Try being blind.

I use this line and would have to defend what SWT have done for all passengers regardless of ability. The only people to lose out are cyclists during the rush hour as they are banned for space reasons. SWT have replaced every single train, I can't remember the last time a train was late. Each train has wheelchair access on all 8 cars.

Every station has ramps to get wheelchairs onto the train and specially trained staff for all disabled people. All ticket offices have special facilities for hard of hearing. There is much more they have done. They have spent several million more than £750,000 and in most areas gone beyond the call of duty. Virtually all the track/signals between Reading and Clapham has been replaced. They have failed because of 3mm high text but probably got marks of 99.99999% for everything else. Quite a few times we have 2 conductors and the addition of 2 security guards, not because it is an unsafe line but it makes people feel safer.

And another thing the cost of travel has been reduced too. Overall they have exceeded what was expected.

[janey]

The YMCA was brand new when I stayed there. It was good and cheap. We felt individual rooms with ensuite was superior to b&b with shared facilities. I was down there in the early 80s, a bit before your time I expect.

nah has all changed now ... there were reports of theft and also of people getting beaten up believe it or not. Not a nice place at all. Plus it was REALLY noisey all night, not ideal when you have to get to work the next day.

I was only born in '78 so yeh probably just a bit before my time

[MrsGoof]

I used to go to the Gym there

Did you come across the Director, a guy called James. He got banged up for stealing from the place 10s' of £K