Reply to: "Robin Hood tax" (aka "Tobin tax")

[Jog On]

U.S. Lawmakers to Propose Financial-Transaction Tax on Firms - Businessweek

Two U.S. lawmakers will introduce measures to impose a transaction tax on financial firms that resembles a proposal released by the European Union.

Senator Tom Harkin, an Iowa Democrat, and Representative Peter DeFazio, an Oregon Democrat, will introduce the bills tomorrow in their respective chambers. The bills will give the United States an increased role in the international debate over a transaction tax, which is likely to be discussed at the Group of 20 summit this week in Cannes, France.

The bills are unlikely to become law: Republicans, who have opposed transaction taxes in the past, control a majority in the House. President Barack Obama’s administration has also voiced concerns over the proposal and declined to give a direct endorsement in advance of the G-20 summit that opens Nov. 3.

The chances a transaction tax could pass in the U.S. “are less than 50/50” primarily because of Republican opposition, Brian Gardner, senior vice president of research for Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc. in Washington, said in a Sept. 28 note to clients.

If they won't accept it I doubt we will. Osbourne has said that the only condition under which we would implement this is if it is done world wide.

[doodab]

Well it will have to be designed well enough for the Chinese to agree to it as well, and the yanks..

Knock yourself out tax designers!

No it doesn't. That's a political decision, it would be perfectly possible to levy a tax based on end user location that wouldn't put eu service providers at a disadvantage if implemented unilaterally.

[Jog On]

I also think the argument that the additional cost due to the tax will make London uncompetitive is somewhat spurious. London has astronomical labour and property costs yet you don't see a mass exodus of city firms because of that.

We are still the financial capital of Europe though and that's not something we want to let the EU take away from us. If our financial services industry gets hit then things will be very bad for everyone.

bash the bankers and blame them for whatever you like, we need this sector more than ever to be robust.

[Jog On]

I'd agree that a badly designed tax could be devestating for the city, but I don't think it's the case that such a tax has to be badly designed.

Well it will have to be designed well enough for the Chinese to agree to it as well, and the yanks..

Knock yourself out tax designers!

[doodab]

I also think the argument that the additional cost due to the tax will make London uncompetitive is somewhat spurious. London has astronomical labour and property costs yet you don't see a mass exodus of city firms because of that.

[Jog On]

All the usual suspects coming out with half-digested and half-understood tidbits they've garnered from the press.
For all their weasel words I don't see the proponents of punitive measures against the City (generally Europhiles) say much about the enforced depression conditions prevailing in Southern Europe due to the stupidity of European economic leadership and the adoption of the Euro.
I don't think we have too much to learn from Euroland, the recent (and not unusual in the big picture) excesses notwithstanding.

You'd think the last couple of days would reinforce why we don't want to be dicated to by the EU. Why do they want this tax and what exactly do they need the money for?

Is it to fund a massive bail out for Greece so they can turn around and say they'll have a vote on whether to accept it or not - then for Italy/Spain/Portugal/Ireland to say "Hey what about me?!"

This tax will be very very bad for UK PLC..

[doodab]

OK the UK imposes some sort of tax on bankers and a fee on transactions.

The EU imposes a tax on financial transactions Europe wide

Would UK businesses be at a trading disadvantage?

London is considered the financial capital of Europe, this will be under threat as our financial service industry is quite a large part of our GDP

What is to stop the big players moving their entire trading base to a country that does not do this?

Nothing

How much money could the UK lose?

Lots

How many jobs could go?

Lots

I'd agree that a badly designed tax could be devestating for the city, but I don't think it's the case that such a tax has to be badly designed.

[sasguru]

Why?

Is this an ATW sockie?

All the usual suspects coming out with half-digested and half-understood tidbits they've garnered from the press.
For all their weasel words I don't see the proponents of punitive measures against the City (generally Europhiles) say much about the enforced depression conditions prevailing in Southern Europe due to the stupidity of European economic leadership and the adoption of the Euro.
I don't think we have too much to learn from Euroland, the recent (and not unusual in the big picture) excesses notwithstanding.

[Jog On]

I think it would be good to discourage short-termism in the markets (ie gambling) and bias the system to favour proper long-term investing.

Why?

Is this an ATW sockie?

[sasguru]

That's because you're a small minded cretin who can't imagine that a society designed for maximising human well being (and I don't mean state handouts or communism before you go down that route) might be a good thing. You would rather attribute it to envy than a desire for a better world because you're incapable of seeing beyond your own bank statement.

Sad sad little man.

Wrong again.
HTH

[Jog On]

It won't happen anyway, the UK will only ever agree to it if it is imposed worldwide so the yanks, japs, chinese will have to be on board with it as well.

Osbourne has even admitted that he doesn't think it will work on a worldwide basis either:

Revealed: Osborne

But get ready to see lots of finger pointing and Rosbeef bashing when it comes to a vote/veto where we will be accused of selfishness and being unsupportive of the world economy. sarkozy will take centre stage, just like Chirac did when they came after us for the 'British cheque' a few years ago...

[doodab]

When you say "we" do you mean itinerant, ne-er-do-well, IT jobbers with no assets? Are you mates with the idiots at St.Pauls?
Smacks of envy to me.

That's because you're a small minded cretin who can't imagine that a society designed for maximising human well being (and I don't mean state handouts or communism before you go down that route) might be a good thing. You would rather attribute it to envy than a desire for a better world because you're incapable of seeing beyond your own bank statement.

Sad sad little man.

[doodab]

I am a novice at this so explain to me.

OK the UK imposes some sort of tax on bankers and a fee on transactions.
Would UK businesses be at a trading disadvantage?
What is to stop the big players moving their entire trading base to a country that does not do this?
How much money could the UK lose?
How many jobs could go?

It would depend. An eu business wanting to hedge currency risk or buy commodity futures would pay slightly more than they do now. The tax premium would be the same whether they buy their contract from barclays in london or bank X in hong kong.

The fact is the eu needs pension funds, investment funds etc, so it's easy to say that if you market these products in the eu then their transactions are taxable. Financial institutions aren't going to say 'oh **** it then, we'll only sell pensions in the us' because there will still be money in it even with the tax.

You have to admit it's odd that everyday items are subject to VAT yet an options contract isn't, and there is no reason why such contracts can't be taxed when 'imported' in the same way as consumer goods are.

[Jog On]

OK the UK imposes some sort of tax on bankers and a fee on transactions.

The EU imposes a tax on financial transactions Europe wide

Would UK businesses be at a trading disadvantage?

London is considered the financial capital of Europe, this will be under threat as our financial service industry is quite a large part of our GDP

What is to stop the big players moving their entire trading base to a country that does not do this?

Nothing

How much money could the UK lose?

Lots

How many jobs could go?

Lots

[sasguru]

Time we told them to shut the **** up IMO.

When you say "we" do you mean itinerant, ne-er-do-well, IT jobbers with no assets? Are you mates with the idiots at St.Pauls?
Smacks of envy to me.