Reply to: Requirements management

[original PM]

I agree with all of that. Remember, it's not me crying change request - it's the consultancy. That said, the deliverables are clear and the change requests being asked for would indeed stand up in court I think.

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn. Their PM is a lightweight PM but heavyweight politician so every meeting you're just trying to dodge the smear, cover your arse and not get spattered. This in itself is tiresome and getting boring.

I got into IT to deliver systems. Good hard work and a bit of cooperation are the tools of my trade. This fetid pit of sharky arse wipes is horrible. Each and every one of them all about their own selfish ends with not a flying fook of a care about the project.

Nasty business.

Heeey I think I work there too - or have worked there - or I imagine will work there in the future.

Once challaneged the MD of a largish umbrella about this sort of behaviour and questioned why it was he was perfectley happy with his senior management team trying to avoid doing any work that would not lead to a benefit to them personally (and not to the company as a whole) and why he was happy with people who were quite clearly spending all day trying to ensure someone else got the sh1t rather than actually working as a team to further the companies goals.

He just looked at me and said he did not really care cos they were making a profit - boy did I feel dim

[Freamon]

What steps are you taking to protect your arse if things go too bad?

I'd start making sure that when you send an email explaining a problem / pointing out a gaping hole, you BCC it to yourself. Or print it to PDF and keep that somewhere safe.

Also, if your phone / MP3 player has a voice recorder, start recording your meetings. When I was on a particularly contentious project, I recorded all the meetings I went to, and then used the recording to write up my meeting notes and emails later. My main reason was that I needed to ensure that I accurately recorded what was said later on, plus I needed to make sure that during the arguments meetings, I could focus on the discussion rather than taking notes.

You are George Costanza AICMFP.

[MarillionFan]

What steps are you taking to protect your arse if things go too bad?

I'd start making sure that when you send an email explaining a problem / pointing out a gaping hole, you BCC it to yourself. Or print it to PDF and keep that somewhere safe.

Also, if your phone / MP3 player has a voice recorder, start recording your meetings. When I was on a particularly contentious project, I recorded all the meetings I went to, and then used the recording to write up my meeting notes and emails later. My main reason was that I needed to ensure that I accurately recorded what was said later on, plus I needed to make sure that during the arguments meetings, I could focus on the discussion rather than taking notes.

[TheFaQQer]

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn. Their PM is a lightweight PM but heavyweight politician so every meeting you're just trying to dodge the smear, cover your arse and not get spattered. This in itself is tiresome and getting boring.

I got into IT to deliver systems. Good hard work and a bit of cooperation are the tools of my trade. This fetid pit of sharky arse wipes is horrible. Each and every one of them all about their own selfish ends with not a flying fook of a care about the project.

What steps are you taking to protect your arse if things go too bad?

I'd start making sure that when you send an email explaining a problem / pointing out a gaping hole, you BCC it to yourself. Or print it to PDF and keep that somewhere safe.

Also, if your phone / MP3 player has a voice recorder, start recording your meetings. When I was on a particularly contentious project, I recorded all the meetings I went to, and then used the recording to write up my meeting notes and emails later. My main reason was that I needed to ensure that I accurately recorded what was said later on, plus I needed to make sure that during the arguments meetings, I could focus on the discussion rather than taking notes.

[alreadypacked]

2 choices

a. get out of dodge (as suggested earlier today).
b. hire a good lawyer for when you're stitched.

Get legal insurance, much cheaper

[aussielong]

I got into IT to deliver systems. Good hard work and a bit of cooperation are the tools of my trade. This fetid pit of sharky arse wipes is horrible. Each and every one of them all about their own selfish ends with not a flying fook of a care about the project.

Nasty business.

You sound like you are new to this. After a number of projects like this you will realise you are wasting your time with your noble goals.

Redefine success in terms of how much money you have made.

Not the "success" of the project - because that is subjective. You might think it a total failure in terms of the quality of work you have been able to output but some politician higher up the stack who holds the purse strings thinks it a total success.

The goal is about making money. A successful year means I made more money than last year. I get my kicks outside of work.

Anything else leads to madness.

[DimPrawn]

What's a DryNite?

DryNites® - Bedwetting Help and Suggestions from DryNites®

[Doggy Styles]

But then again, you don't go to bed in a pair of giant DryNites do you?

What's a DryNite?

[DimPrawn]

There are loads of clients and people in the big bad world like this. Normally I find these types of places very rewarding to work in. You'll never get a thank you from anyone but the personal satisfaction of being able to thrive and deliver in this type of environment I quite enjoy.

But then again, you don't go to bed in a pair of giant DryNites do you?

[suityou01]

Fair enough. In cases where the contract explicitly states the client will deliver something to the consultancy on a particular day (e.g. a development environment, assuming there is some wording around it being "fit for purpose" or similar) then the client won't have much of a leg to stand on.

But the flip side is a CR arising from a clarification/elaboration of requirements. Suppliers will often say that because a document is "signed off", any deviation from what has been "agreed" in the document after it's been "signed off" constitutes a change request and more money for them. Check the contract very carefully, and be aware of the incentives on all sides. I have spent weeks sometimes months arguing the toss on behalf of clients, and in most cases the supplier finds, when they actually read their contract, that there is no contractual basis for such a CR, as the contract makes provisions for clarifications and elaborations, and explicitly says that documentation for a phase is only "accepted" by the client, rather than "signed off". I've advised clients to ensure they get these clauses into a contract prior to procurement, because in IT delivery, requirements DO legitimately get elaborated and clarified during development, and if every time this happens you are hit with a CR then your supplier has you over a barrel.

The above notwithstanding, incentives also play a big part. If there is no incentive for someone to fight on commercials, the contract ceases to mean very much. I have experienced situations where a supplier was asking for more money via CR for something that very very obviously was not a change as per the contract, but the commercial managers on the client side agreed to pay for the CR anyway, because politically it was to their benefit to do so, and the goodwill gained by accepting the CR was far greater than the cost of the CR itself. So the contract doesn't always win, not by a long shot.

You're far more interesting now you've hopped off the fence.



Seriously though, clarification / elaboration of requirements during development is something anybody would expect and plan in some days for. I'm talking solely about completely new requirements.

This is a high level requirements catalogue that we were given, as part of the contracted terms of work. This stuff coming out of the woodwork is just plain new.

Anyways, switching to agile requirements management seems to be winning some smiles, let's see how the requirements prioritisation session goes tomorrow when they have to drop stuff out.

[oracleslave]

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn. Their PM is a lightweight PM but heavyweight politician so every meeting you're just trying to dodge the smear, cover your arse and not get spattered. This in itself is tiresome and getting boring.

There are loads of clients and people in the big bad world like this. Normally I find these types of places very rewarding to work in. You'll never get a thank you from anyone but the personal satisfaction of being able to thrive and deliver in this type of environment I quite enjoy.

[keninparis]

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn..

Nasty business.

2 choices

a. get out of dodge (as suggested earlier today).
b. hire a good lawyer for when you're stitched.

[Freamon]

I agree with all of that. Remember, it's not me crying change request - it's the consultancy. That said, the deliverables are clear and the change requests being asked for would indeed stand up in court I think.

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn. Their PM is a lightweight PM but heavyweight politician so every meeting you're just trying to dodge the smear, cover your arse and not get spattered. This in itself is tiresome and getting boring.

I got into IT to deliver systems. Good hard work and a bit of cooperation are the tools of my trade. This fetid pit of sharky arse wipes is horrible. Each and every one of them all about their own selfish ends with not a flying fook of a care about the project.

Nasty business.

Fair enough. In cases where the contract explicitly states the client will deliver something to the consultancy on a particular day (e.g. a development environment, assuming there is some wording around it being "fit for purpose" or similar) then the client won't have much of a leg to stand on.

But the flip side is a CR arising from a clarification/elaboration of requirements. Suppliers will often say that because a document is "signed off", any deviation from what has been "agreed" in the document after it's been "signed off" constitutes a change request and more money for them. Check the contract very carefully, and be aware of the incentives on all sides. I have spent weeks sometimes months arguing the toss on behalf of clients, and in most cases the supplier finds, when they actually read their contract, that there is no contractual basis for such a CR, as the contract makes provisions for clarifications and elaborations, and explicitly says that documentation for a phase is only "accepted" by the client, rather than "signed off". I've advised clients to ensure they get these clauses into a contract prior to procurement, because in IT delivery, requirements DO legitimately get elaborated and clarified during development, and if every time this happens you are hit with a CR then your supplier has you over a barrel.

The above notwithstanding, incentives also play a big part. If there is no incentive for someone to fight on commercials, the contract ceases to mean very much. I have experienced situations where a supplier was asking for more money via CR for something that very very obviously was not a change as per the contract, but the commercial managers on the client side agreed to pay for the CR anyway, because politically it was to their benefit to do so, and the goodwill gained by accepting the CR was far greater than the cost of the CR itself. So the contract doesn't always win, not by a long shot.

[suityou01]

No, the question you need to ask yourself is "given the strengths and weaknesses of the contract (bearing in mind this is IT, so holding someone to something via a contract is an order of magnitude more difficult than normal), and the incentives that exist on either side, what are the chances of one or other side agreeing to budge". It's all very well crying change request, but unless 1. the contract explicitly says that X will be delivered, and is detailed enough for that to stand up in case of a dispute, and 2. both sides agree that this is the case, then there is a chance that a change request might actually get agreed. If not, then I as the customer will simply say "sorry, no more budget, you need to deliver it on the original timescales".

I agree with all of that. Remember, it's not me crying change request - it's the consultancy. That said, the deliverables are clear and the change requests being asked for would indeed stand up in court I think.

ClientCo are a bunch of disorganised clueless muppets that couldn't manage a turd in a public loo. They are quite slimy and try and smear and wriggle at every twist and turn. Their PM is a lightweight PM but heavyweight politician so every meeting you're just trying to dodge the smear, cover your arse and not get spattered. This in itself is tiresome and getting boring.

I got into IT to deliver systems. Good hard work and a bit of cooperation are the tools of my trade. This fetid pit of sharky arse wipes is horrible. Each and every one of them all about their own selfish ends with not a flying fook of a care about the project.

Nasty business.

[Freamon]

Freamon if you sit on the fence too much you lose credibility and get an arse full of splinters.
Where do you stand on scope creep? A change is pretty clear on a fixed price contract. My specifications are explicit. If after the requirements freeze you then ask for something that requires more work to the specification, logical data model, extra dev effort, extra test cases, potential for more bug fixing then this is a change that needs to be priced in.

You liberal daily mail reading types could never run a fixed price project for a consultancy as you'd all go bust in a heartbeat.

No, the question you need to ask yourself is "given the strengths and weaknesses of the contract (bearing in mind this is IT, so holding someone to something via a contract is an order of magnitude more difficult than normal), and the incentives that exist on either side, what are the chances of one or other side agreeing to budge". It's all very well crying change request, but unless 1. the contract explicitly says that X will be delivered, and is detailed enough for that to stand up in case of a dispute, and 2. both sides agree that this is the case, then there is a chance that a change request might actually get agreed. If not, then I as the customer will simply say "sorry, no more budget, you need to deliver it on the original timescales".