Reply to: Burglaries down, Stabbings up

[wim121]

The home owner is arrested to be questioned so that facts can be established.
At the time of arrest, all the police will have is one mans word that the dead person was a burglar.
Arrest != charged, convicted and sentenced

I agree that the police need to find out what happened.

All Im saying is, there is a way to do it. Since the homeowner is the victim, they can get details by sitting him down with a cuppa, organising the point of entry to be secured and getting details and then offering help.

I feel that dragging him down to the station and bailing him, is the wrong and insensitive way to deal with it IMHO.

[wim121]

I have to say, that MO would work on me!

Hahahahahahaha

*tickle tickle*


Ahhh, I probably wouldnt object as strongly, to a woman breaking in to my house and tickling details out of me. Sounds kinky!

[TinTrump]

...without all the facts you cannot automatically assume that he is not guilty.

A good point as I'm reminded of the case of Kenneth Noye, a criminal who knifed to death a copper in the grounds of his home (not even in the house!). Found not gulity and went on to murder (arguably, again).

[AtW]

The home owner is arrested to be questioned so that facts can be established.

Why arrest him if he can voluntarily join police to give his witness statement?

[Spacecadet]

<snip>

The home owner is arrested to be questioned so that facts can be established.
At the time of arrest, all the police will have is one mans word that the dead person was a burglar.
Arrest != charged, convicted and sentenced

[mudskipper]

You can see that the theif looks like a scumbag and not exactly the kind of guy that would tickle your pin number out of you.

I have to say, that MO would work on me!

[wim121]

It's exactly this that makes a police enquiry necessary. If the intruder was killed beause the homeowner believed he deserved to be, then it is murder/manslaughter.

Nope, just justice.

Why such sympathy for the criminal? The moment you terrify someone in their own home and put their life in danger, you should deal with the consequences.

Everyone has a right to defend themselves when their life is endangered. An intruder automatically places your life at risk. You dont break in to someones house and then ask if they fancy a game of scrabble or monopoly. You are there to commit a crime and have no good intentions at all.

It isnt like if I approach a woman in a dark alleyway with my flies unzipped. Should she beat me to death before I even speak or present any clear danger, probably not. I could be wanting to ask for directions politely and forgot to do my zip up when I last went to the toilet. Or I could be a violent rapist? But if I break in to someones house, there is no misunderstanding, I have commited a crime and present a real danger which cannot be misunderstood.

I feel we should have laws like Florida. Over there, if you feel your life is endangered, you have the right to defend yourself by lethal force. Doesnt mean the whole state is going on a stab-a-thon, killing one another, just means that if someone threatens you with a gun or knife on the street or violates your home, you at least have the right to defend yourself and immobilise the person through lethal force. Quite often, in such a violent struggle, unconciousness or death is the only way to immobilise the attacker.

If he was fatally injured while the homeowner tried to defend himself then it is not.

What if the homeowner had previous convictions for violent assault for example? I'm sure he hasn't, but without all the facts you cannot automatically assume that he is not guilty. Or what if the homeowner had posted on internet forums that he thought "any scum breaking and entering deserves to be instantly killed?" Hmmm.

If he did post that online, I would agree and give him +rep

If he had pevious convictions, then our legal system, says he has been rehabilitated once his sentence is spent.

The same rule still applies, the scrote violated someone elses home. You cant commit such a henious crime and not expect a reaction.

Lets say I go skydiving. I have to accept there is a real possibility my parachute may fail. People have died or barely survived after major surgery after their chutes failed to deploy. Do I blame the manufacturer? No, I accept that im a moron for jumping out of a plane with a perfectly good engine. I know that the parachute may have been good, but a twist of fate stopped it working properly.

The issue is risk/reward ratios. Stealing off someone offers a good potential reward for the theif, however, should the victim not be a meek field mouse, there is a risk as well.

Burglar killed by dad was after Rolex...& £50k | The Sun |News

When you read what happened

'Two men had heard that the owner had £50k in cash, pretended to be there on official business and then forced themselves in threatening the owner and dragging him from room to room. In the meantime his wife and kidncome home and walk in to whit he screams for them to get out and the burglar is stabbed to death in the melee'

And the police arrest for murder.

Indeed. I can imagine as most would, that he told the wifey to get out as he didnt want her tortured and killed. The poor man must have been scared for his life. You can see that the theif looks like a scumbag and not exactly the kind of guy that would tickle your pin number out of you. I would be terrified for my life if confronted with that attacker! If I didnt grab the nearest weapon and get the first swing in, he would surely kill me as he looks much more powerful.

I hope they present the scummy family with a dry cleaning bill for the blood spilt.

[PAH]

My reasoning is based on fact, from last night's episode.

Two teenage mugs trying to break into the record company business with sod all but a site costing a couple of quid a month to host, wanting 50k, having signed a few acts on 80% commission.

Duncan said he'd make them a better offer than they offered their signed acts, 79%. Which they accepted.

I'm sure it was all done on a bet. The two lads betting they can get an offer for a doomed idea. Duncan betting he can get the biggest share on a deal.

[AtW]

[Another idea for Dragon's Den. I'm sure Duncan would be interested for only 79% of the business. ]

You will be stunned by his offer

[sasguru]

I suppose some people might argue that a burglar does not deserve to be instantly killed.
But if that was the presumption then surely it would be no different philosophically to the signs outside electricity substations that say "Danger of Death if you enter here" or words to that effect.
Knowing that their death was an impersonal but likely outcome would deter all but the most stupid burglars.

[PAH]

They should build tazers into houses. Ideal self-defence and if built in they can't be taken outdoors to cause a nuisance or be used for offensive means.

Maybe allow different stun settings so it can also be used on the nagging wife or nuisance kids.

[Another idea for Dragon's Den. I'm sure Duncan would be interested for only 79% of the business. ]

[mudskipper]

Any scum breaking and entering deserves to be instantly killed.
...
Id like to buy that homeowner a pint instead of seeing him trawled through questioning by the pigs.

It's exactly this that makes a police enquiry necessary. If the intruder was killed beause the homeowner believed he deserved to be, then it is murder/manslaughter.

If he was fatally injured while the homeowner tried to defend himself then it is not.

What if the homeowner had previous convictions for violent assault for example? I'm sure he hasn't, but without all the facts you cannot automatically assume that he is not guilty. Or what if the homeowner had posted on internet forums that he thought "any scum breaking and entering deserves to be instantly killed?" Hmmm.

[MarillionFan]

Burglar killed by dad was after Rolex...& £50k | The Sun |News

When you read what happened

'Two men had heard that the owner had £50k in cash, pretended to be there on official business and then forced themselves in threatening the owner and dragging him from room to room. In the meantime his wife and kidncome home and walk in to whit he screams for them to get out and the burglar is stabbed to death in the melee'

And the police arrest for murder.

[wim121]

Do you have a link to the story you're so upset about, as it's clearly not the one this thread is about?

This one ......


A home owner who has been confronted by a thug breaking in, should never be arrested. Instead, they should be counselled at home and made to feel safe as they are the VICTIM, not the dead scummy thug. I appluad that man for killing the scummy thug who looks like a piece of filth.

He should never have been dragged down the station, let alone "bailed".


It is not uncommon for victims of home invasions to be tortured and killed for pin numbers and safe keys. In rarer circumstances, children and women in the house have been tied down and raped while the bound and gagged men can only watch.

Any scum breaking and entering deserves to be instantly killed. What do you want victims to do or say; "pork my wife, take my car keys, stab me until I give you my pin number and i'll take it with a british stiff upper lip"?

Good on this guy for killing this thug before he hurt any victims in the household. How dare the thugs family lay flowers outside either. The victims are the homeowners. Quite frankly, one less thug, possibly on welfare, cause to celebrate. Id like to buy that homeowner a pint instead of seeing him trawled through questioning by the pigs.

[Spacecadet]

NO, no, no, that will result in massive blunt trauma on the first blow, but the second blow will send soft tissue splattering all over the walls and the carpet, involving even more cleaning costs. Suggest a sharp object to the cranium, quickly followed by sticking a cork in the resulting hole to prevent squirts.

Maybe chloroform first to knock them out
you've then got time to get some plastic sheeting down and secure the intruder.
When he wakes up you can then take your time, making sure he's facing you of course