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Previously on "Conspiracy theories"

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  • foritisme
    replied
    ps One thing's for sure, Tory Bliar does not lie.

    Leave a comment:


  • foritisme
    replied
    "One thing is for sure though, nothing conspiracy nuts post as proof is actually what they claim it to be."


    The problem with a lot of consipracies is that you do get a few nutters jumping on-board, then everyone is tarred with the same brush. I would like to see a program where both sides of the arguments where cross-examined at the same time, rather than people picking out the obvious things that are wrong then claim it's all wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mailman
    replied
    Originally posted by Central-Scrutiniser
    As it stands I expect to see Rumsfield taking much of the blame and expect to see his retirement from office sooner rather than later.
    What kind of a statement is that? Thats like saying Brown will retire sooner than later???

    And as for nine eleven, I am still at a loss as to why the rubble was shipped out hastily to China.
    What do you call hastily? The last bits of scrap werent cleared away from ground zero until May 2002. Surely if this was such a hasty clear up then it would have been done well before 2002?

    One thing is for sure though, nothing conspiracy nuts post as proof is actually what they claim it to be.

    "There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".
    And so much for investigators not having access to the scrap too

    Mailman

    Leave a comment:


  • Central-Scrutiniser
    replied
    Yesterdam I meniotned that I expect Rumsfield to resign over Iraq ,seems Im not alone ...


    General joins attack on Rumsfeld over Iraq war

    · Fourth retired officer calls on defence chief to resign
    · Rift between military and civilian leaders deepens

    Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
    Friday April 14, 2006



    The Pentagon yesterday faced a deepening rift between its civilian and military leadership over the war on Iraq after a fourth retired general called for the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to stand down.
    In the latest in a torrent of criticism centred on the Pentagon chief, Major General John Batiste, who led a division in Iraq, said Mr Rumsfeld's authoritarian leadership style had made it more difficult for professional soldiers. "We need leadership up there that respects the military as they expect the military to respect them. And that leadership needs to understand teamwork," he told CNN on Wednesday.

    Gen Batiste's comments were especially startling because he is so closely associated with the civilian leadership, having served as an aide to one of the architects of the war, the former deputy Pentagon chief Paul Wolfowitz.

    The ferocity of the attacks and calls for serving officers to go public with their dissent was starting to cause concern among military analysts yesterday. "If this opens up so we have more and more officers speaking up and blaming Rumsfeld and blaming senior civilians, then it is possibly heading towards a fairly dangerous civilian-military crisis," said Andrew Bacevich, a military historian at Boston University.

    Earlier this week Lieutenant General Gregory Newbold, the former director of operations for the joint chiefs of staff, published a scathing critique of the planning for the war in an essay for Time magazine. Gen Newbold said he regretted not objecting more forcefully to the invasion of Iraq while he was still in uniform.

    He went on to call on those still in service to speak up. "I offer a challenge to those still in uniform: a leader's responsibility is to give voice to those who can't -or don't have the opportunity to - speak."

    Last month Major General Paul Eaton, who oversaw the training of Iraqi troops until 2004, also went public with his criticism of the civilian leadership, writing in the New York Times that: "Rumsfeld has put the Pentagon at the mercy of his ego, his Cold Warrior's view of the world and his unrealistic confidence in technology to replace manpower."

    Retired Marine general Anthony Zinni, the former head of US Central Command and a long-standing critic of the war, has also been criticising Mr Rumsfeld while on tour to promote his new book.

    The attacks on Mr Rumsfeld come at a time of increasing debate within the military on the obligation of professional soldiers to voice their criticism of policy, and a revival of an influential military history, Dereliction of Duty, which criticised the joint chiefs of staff during the Vietnam war. But the professional military's resentment of Mr Rumsfeld dates to the run-up to the Iraq war when the army chief of staff, General Eric Shinseki, was sidelined.

    "It's a bursting of the dam in some ways of the frustration and anger, not only with the policies but with the way that Mr Rumsfeld has interacted with people, the disrespect he has shown to the military," said Richard Kohn, a military historian at the University of North Carolina.

    Although most analysts believe that only a small number of retired military officers would go public with their misgivings, growing public doubts about Iraq are encouraging others to speak out.

    "You have a group now that is looking back and saying: 'Wow. I should have said something earlier.' I think as time goes on it is natural that more and more generals after agonising over what they have seen over the last three years might voice their concerns," said Robert Work, a retired Marine colonel and an analyst at the Centre for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

    But some in the military are anxious to avoid blame for the Iraq war. "The senior civilian leadership is going to do everything it possibly can to avoid having responsibility for the war fixed on them, and the senior military leadership is equally determined to have them left holding the bag," Mr Bacevich said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fungus
    replied
    I'm sure there were all kinds of reasons for Desert Storm 2. The influence of companies and government insiders who would benefit financially from rebuilding Iraq and buying up Iraq companies. The influence of right wingers with an agenda to remove people they consider undesirable. A genuine concern to tidy up the world. A desire to ensure the stability of the oil supply. Overconfidence, political naivety, and a belief that they could overturn Saddam in a few weeks and then it's done and dusted. Can you really pin it all on one cause? I suspect that the last point is important.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fungus
    replied
    Originally posted by Central-Scrutiniser
    Ask yourself, who benefited from the attack,and there you will find a pointer.
    Well I guess road sweepers made a lot from overtime, so it must have been them. Just goes to show that you can't trust anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • thunderlizard
    replied
    I heard one of the US shock-jock DJs arguing that the Germans had done it, in order to devalue the dollar against the euro at some important point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Central-Scrutiniser
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicky G
    Well, that's a tough one.


    US economy was severely damaged, which hardly benefits the power elites.

    The left and right in the US were sharply divided when the Bush administration predictably took action against other targets, causing internal unrest and mass protests on a regular basis.

    The US is in a never ending war in the Middle East, which will be used to justify further attacks and which has given the left a monopoly on morality (They’ve all come out from under their rocks).

    The US reaction has been a propaganda coup for the perpetrators, certainly not just within the Arab world.

    Iraq has caused an irreparable rift between the United States and Europe. Who has always wanted that?

    Also who has benefited from rising fuel prices?

    Seems pretty straightforward to me. Let’s face it, America can't even cover up torturing a few people in Iraq and somehow they plotted and carried out a massive conspiracy?
    Interesting response Nicky.

    From my perspective the benefactors were elements within the Millitary Industrial complex.

    The losers were the US domestic economy and the image and crediblity of the US which has been tarnished by, in my opinion, the flawed decision to invade Iraq and more damning the absence of a post war invasion plan which led to the resignation of Tommy Franks after he had led a brilliant millitary campaign.

    There were better ways to topple Saddam than the approach they took.

    As it stands I expect to see Rumsfield taking much of the blame and expect to see his retirement from office sooner rather than later.

    Meanwhile,almost incredibly, Saudi Arabia, sponors of international terrorism and incubator of Bin Laden,managed to escape with no sanctions.

    Was that because of the unseemly Oil Business relationship between the House of Saud and the Bush family ?

    In my opinion the US administration are fighting the wrong war in the wrong place, the invasion of Iraq has damaged the US in many ways ,whilst Iraq seems to be slipping from a secular state into a larger Iran.

    And as for nine eleven, I am still at a loss as to why the rubble was shipped out hastily to China.



    Last edited by Central-Scrutiniser; 13 April 2006, 14:38.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrsGoof
    replied
    but Dubya did get to play with his toy soldiers

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicky G
    replied
    Ask yourself, who benefited from the attack, and there you will find a pointer.
    Well, that's a tough one.


    US economy was severely damaged, which hardly benefits the power elites.

    The left and right in the US were sharply divided when the Bush administration predictably took action against other targets, causing internal unrest and mass protests on a regular basis.

    The US is in a never ending war in the Middle East, which will be used to justify further attacks and which has given the left a monopoly on morality (They’ve all come out from under their rocks).

    The US reaction has been a propaganda coup for the perpetrators, certainly not just within the Arab world.

    Iraq has caused an irreparable rift between the United States and Europe. Who has always wanted that?

    Also who has benefited from rising fuel prices?

    Seems pretty straightforward to me. Let’s face it, America can't even cover up torturing a few people in Iraq and somehow they plotted and carried out a massive conspiracy?

    Leave a comment:


  • Denny
    replied
    Originally posted by Central-Scrutiniser

    Ask yourself, who benefited from the attack,and there you will find a pointer.
    To IR35 exemption?

    Leave a comment:


  • Central-Scrutiniser
    replied
    Originally posted by Denny
    Rubbish.

    This is authenticated video evidence of the 9/11 questions I've stated above, there is no other evidence only theories and speculation and poor intelligence that demonstrated your examples.
    So its a matter of wheter you choose to believe the Government conspiracy theory or the non Government variety.

    Personally, and I have researched this topic at great length,my view is the US government were aware that an attack had been planned.

    However certain elements within the Government who had a direct interest in the Millitary Industrial complex stood down the US forces on that day to let the attack happen to justify their political and global agenda.

    Ask yourself, who benefited from the attack,and there you will find a pointer.
    Last edited by Central-Scrutiniser; 13 April 2006, 12:25.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denny
    replied
    Originally posted by Bagpuss
    These conspiracies are no more far fetched than:

    1/ Iraq had WMD
    2/ Saddam was behind 911

    Now what kind of looney would believe those?
    Rubbish.

    This is authenticated video evidence of the 9/11 questions I've stated above, there is no other evidence only theories and speculation and poor intelligence that demonstrated your examples.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bagpuss
    replied
    These conspiracies are no more far fetched than:

    1/ Iraq had WMD
    2/ Saddam was behind 911

    Now what kind of looney would believe those?

    Leave a comment:


  • Denny
    replied
    Originally posted by Mailman
    Eh? The flights originated inside the US

    Mailman
    Maybe, but they would have been spotted anyway.

    You're clearly not in an IR35 friendly mood today.

    Leave a comment:

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