Reply to: Getting fit, when do you start to feel better?

[Old Greg]

So which is you?

Looks like Churchy's day centre's annual charabanc trip.

[Arturo Bassick]

They shouldn't really be worn by anyone not involved in a gay pride festival.

So which is you?

[Mich the Tester]

Yes, but budgie smugglers? FFS

They shouldn't really be worn by anyone not involved in a gay pride festival.

[Arturo Bassick]

Arnie's probably still pretty strong but his age is showing.

Yes, but budgie smugglers? FFS

[Mich the Tester]

pictures of men in speedos

The first guy looks like he's still in pretty good shape. Arnie's probably still pretty strong but his age is showing.

[TimberWolf]

It's simply that you don't lose the strength very quickly; you lose it at about the same rate you built it, and if you'd spent 20 years training before the break you don't lose all that in 2 years. My father is now in his 60s and still runs out for Old Wobblebellians 5th XV each week; his upper body strength is still very impressive despite doing very little training, but of course he trained hard for both rugby and athletics from age 7 to 40. He still tackles large men as if he's an All Black flanker in a bad mood. Just a shame he can't always catch them these days.

Just looking at some pictures of the old timers, trying to find recent photographs to compare with old:

Ferrigno still looks pretty big, but the chest has sunk.



What's happened to Arnold's arms!

[TimberWolf]

Yep, but that's primarily fluid build up in the muscles and turd build up in your gut. 1/2 stone is about 3 kilos; that's easily explained by some fluid build up, a couple of glasses of water and a typical MTT evening meal.

You'd believe me if you saw my Olympic sized deposit this morning.

I'm usually pretty regular, except in France, though granted meal sizes are markedly more massive subsequent to heavy weights sessions, and hence probably dumps would be more massive too. Never measured those. Muscles are 70% or so water, so not sure about the fluid build-up explanation, usually when people say that I'm left a bit sceptical.

[Mich the Tester]

When I was lifting heavy weights, I found I could lose or gain 1/2 stone with a week or so, depending on whether I was training with heavy weights or not training at all.

Yep, but that's primarily fluid build up in the muscles and turd build up in your gut. 1/2 stone is about 3 kilos; that's easily explained by some fluid build up, a couple of glasses of water and a typical MTT evening meal.

You'd believe me if you saw my Olympic sized deposit this morning.

[TimberWolf]

But those people to whom you refer might have had muscle atrophy, but their motor units are re-activated very quickly, so their muscle fibres start on the hypertrophy much more quickly.

Could be! It might partly explain why those even that have never set for in a gym can make such quick progress when they begin training, because the chances are that we are all not as strong as we once were, and hence can catch up to our motor units, which I gather you suggest degenerates less quickly than muscle. Re losing muscle mass. I found I could lose it pretty quickly, as with fat. Not that I've ever had visible floppy fat. When I was lifting heavy weights, I found I could lose or gain 1/2 stone with a week or so, depending on whether I was training with heavy weights or not training at all. I get warning twinges from heavy weights now, so avoid them, and heavy squats hurt my back now!

[doodab]

Actually exercise that puts you in the fat burning zone is better than high intensity cardio, but normal walking doesn't raise the heart rate enough.

The "fat burning zone" is a bit misleading. A higher intensity aerobic workout will actually burn just as much or more fat than a low intensity one of the same duration e.g. an hour of lower intensity exercise that burns 400 calories with 50% from fat doesn't burn any more fat than a high intensity workout that burns 600 calories at 30%. You also need to consider what happens to all those calories you didn't burn in the lower intensity workout. The overall amount of energy expended is higher at a higher intensity, and that is what actually counts because those calories you didn't burn are ultimately going to get turned into fat.

If you exercise for longer, the percentage of calories that come from fat increases, so there is benefit to be had from lower intensity exercise if you are doing it for 2 or 3 hours at a stretch but for a typical hour in the gym higher intensity is better.

[Mich the Tester]

I disagree Mitch. I think the fastest muscle gains would be seen in the first few weeks of a training regime, after which it's a law of diminishing returns, notwithstanding many dips and bumps. Especially notable gains (10s of pounds in weeks) can also be seen in people, especially men, that were once muscular and returned to heavy training. So called 'muscle memory'; similarly with atrophied muscle. There may be 'fat memory' too!

But those people to whom you refer might have had muscle atrophy, but their motor units are re-activated very quickly, so their muscle fibres start on the hypertrophy much more quickly. I had the same thing after I missed a couple of years of rugby, rather stupidly chasing one of those delusions called a 'career'; got on a rowing machine and within a couple of weeks I was changing shape. It's simply that you don't lose the strength very quickly; you lose it at about the same rate you built it, and if you'd spent 20 years training before the break you don't lose all that in 2 years. My father is now in his 60s and still runs out for Old Wobblebellians 5th XV each week; his upper body strength is still very impressive despite doing very little training, but of course he trained hard for both rugby and athletics from age 7 to 40. He still tackles large men as if he's an All Black flanker in a bad mood. Just a shame he can't always catch them these days.

[TimberWolf]

You won't gain muscle mass in the first 6 to 8 weeks assuming you're starting training; all that happens is that inactive motor units (nerve ending plus muscle fibre) become active; any mass gain is simply 'tone', as the muscles become engorged with fluid. After the first couple of months, depending on the type of training, the muscle fibres start to get thicker (hypertrophy) in reponse to training. There is no evidence of humans growing new muscle fibres as a result of training (hyperplasia), although it does seem to happen in rats.

What I'm suggesting is what is possible if the training is hypertrophy specific and combined with the right regime of rest and diet. After the first year or so, the rate of hypertrophy will fall markedly, a bit like the law of diminishing returns. That's why bodybuilders have to spend ages in the gym, take supplements and often use nasty substances.

As well, if you're making significant gains in muscular strength, at some stage you might go so far that your tendons, ligaments and bones can't keep up; they get stronger, but much more slowly and are vulnerable to injury if the muscular strength increases too quickly.

I disagree Mitch. I think the fastest muscle gains would be seen in the first few weeks of a training regime, after which it's a law of diminishing returns, notwithstanding many dips and bumps. Especially notable gains (10s of pounds in weeks) can also be seen in people, especially men, that were once muscular and returned to heavy training. So called 'muscle memory'; similarly with atrophied muscle. There may be 'fat memory' too!

[Mich the Tester]

Had a few breaks from exercise, months at a time, does take a good while to get back to a decent level. In addition as I am mid 40's, I seem to be in a constant state of carrying niggles and little injuries while playing footy 3 x 1hour a week, game of golf etc. Achilles is suffering tendonitis or similar, ...

Get that looked at by a sports doctor or orthopaedic specialist, not just a GP. If it gets worse it can lead to a torn tendon, which is a bugger of an injury.

[Mich the Tester]

Try to put some muscle on too, helps with tone and makes your body use more energy just getting about. For women, forget about getting too muscley, it will never happen short of you giving up work and employing a professional trainer full-time...

whs

If you want a car to burn more fuel, you can push the gas pedal in. However, you can also fit a V8 5 litre engine, and even going slowly you'll burn a lot of fuel.

Most people could actually gain about 15lbs of muscle mass without becoming overly 'big', as long as that's distributed over your whole body.

[lukemg]

Had a few breaks from exercise, months at a time, does take a good while to get back to a decent level. In addition as I am mid 40's, I seem to be in a constant state of carrying niggles and little injuries while playing footy 3 x 1hour a week, game of golf etc. Achilles is suffering tendonitis or similar, hip sore, knees creaking.
I hope that the general effect on my health is worth these symptoms !
Also be very careful about eating up to your new regime, done a walk, I can have a biscuit etc It's ALL about calorie intake, amount of exercise needed to shift a Mars etc is frightening, especially walking !!
Try to put some muscle on too, helps with tone and makes your body use more energy just getting about. For women, forget about getting too muscley, it will never happen short of you giving up work and employing a professional trainer full-time...