Reply to: Economic Outlook: Cut tax to make UK a magnet for the world

[DodgyAgent]

Sounds great, but also very expensive. I would argue that schools and teachers are already pretty good, and throwing vast sums of cash at them won't necessarily make them any better. The main reason certain groups of kids don't succeed at school is their home environment and parenting, not the school.

Schools and teachers are appalling in the public sector. To break kids away from poor parenting send them to boarding school. It worked for Harry Potter


Next time I'm unemployed I'll be robbing your house then. Hopefully in the process I won't injure you such that you can't work, because if I do, you won't be getting any disability benefits so you'll probably just starve. On the plus side, undertakers would get a nice boost to their incomes.

yep and in my world people like you who think society owes you a living will be out. The genuinely disabled will be looked after properly without being swamped by all the spongers like you.


So the state shouldn't provide any services at all? Privatisation of railways, water and energy supplies has been such a roaring success hasn't it...

could be worse, they could be run by the state. Having said that the government should be acting as a steward to ensure competition exists


Paying NI whilst they're working isn't enough I suppose.


I'm not sure there's enough fruit in East Anglia to keep them all busy. they can go and dig for coal in Poland then


You think a state run manufacturer would be able to compete with the chinese, when the workers are compelled to work there rather than choosing to? Sounds like an amusing way to burn vast sums of money for no benefit to me. Not sure when "the poor" will look for real jobs in this scheme, either.
well what do you suggest then?


A plan that's worked extremely well for Ireland.

low corporation tax was not the cause of Irelands problem was it?

[Freamon]

The Government Pension Fund of Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While we were pissing all the oil revenue up the wall, Norway had other ideas. The country is set for many years to come while we scrabble around trying to reduce how much we are STILL overspending compared to income.
Unbelievable incompetence.

Sadly the decision makers have no incentive whatsoever to plan further in advance than the next election in a maximum of 5 years time.

[doodab]

That was the impression I left with, a focus towards family and society, it's all they seemed to care for, the people. Upon returning to the UK you feel the right opposite, people are commercial opportunities to be exploited for profit.

That pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with the UK for me.

[scooterscot]

The Government Pension Fund of Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While we were pissing all the oil revenue up the wall, Norway had other ideas. The country is set for many years to come while we scrabble around trying to reduce how much we are STILL overspending compared to income.
Unbelievable incompetence.

I met couple of Yorkshire men of all people who had emigrated to Norway. They were like me bleating on about the benefits of the country despite the high tax. I let in one ear out the other. After an 18 month gig I was real sad to be leaving, met a number of other Scottish folk out there also who were enjoying family life. That was the impression I left with, a focus towards family and society, it's all they seemed to care for, the people. Upon returning to the UK you feel the right opposite, people are commercial opportunities to be exploited for profit.

A photo from the house we had in Bergen, in the harbour you can see the boat that we would take back to Newcastle.

[lukemg]

The Government Pension Fund of Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While we were pissing all the oil revenue up the wall, Norway had other ideas. The country is set for many years to come while we scrabble around trying to reduce how much we are STILL overspending compared to income.
Unbelievable incompetence.

[doodab]

You take suitcase live there for a week, you'll be noticing the differences within the first couple of hours.

Quite, but it's a difficult thing to put a number on to facilitate a direct comparison by someone who doesn't have several years spare to visit every country in the world.

[scooterscot]

It's a difficult thing to measure.

You take suitcase live there for a week, you'll be noticing the differences within the first couple of hours.

[doodab]

Interesting reading but it doesn't show how efficient those countries are at spending tax revenue.

The Swedes pay high tax but they also feel like they're getting a good deal from what I hear.

It's a difficult thing to measure.

[scooterscot]

The Swedes pay high tax but they also feel like they're getting a good deal from what I hear.

Same is true for Norway, everyday services are like travelling in 1st class period. It's a funny old world.

[gingerjedi]

Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation

Interesting reading but it doesn't show how efficient those countries are at spending tax revenue.

The Swedes pay high tax but they also feel like they're getting a good deal from what I hear.

[doodab]

What about NI, CGT, VAT, stamp duty, fuel duty, alcohol duty, inheritance tax, council tax, carbon tax, road tax, etc etc etc.

I reckon we are global leaders in heavy taxation. Unless you are a Non Dom and pay £50K pa flat rate.

Total taxation as % of GDP statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Taxation

[scooterscot]

What about NI, CGT, VAT, stamp duty, fuel duty, alcohol duty, inheritance tax, council tax, carbon tax, road tax, etc etc etc.

I reckon we are global leaders in heavy taxation. Unless you are a Non Dom and pay £50K pa flat rate.

It sends out a very clear message. Don't even think about working for a living.

[DimPrawn]

Even more oddly both those countries tax their citizens less!!!

What about NI, CGT, VAT, stamp duty, fuel duty, alcohol duty, inheritance tax, council tax, carbon tax, road tax, etc etc etc.

I reckon we are global leaders in heavy taxation. Unless you are a Non Dom and pay £50K pa flat rate.

[Freamon]

Easy,

Spend money on education reducing class sizes, making teachers accountable, giving parental choice and therefore giving control over to the consumer not the supplier. Improve sports facilities and link teaching of sports with clubs. let the schools be run privately.

Sounds great, but also very expensive. I would argue that schools and teachers are already pretty good, and throwing vast sums of cash at them won't necessarily make them any better. The main reason certain groups of kids don't succeed at school is their home environment and parenting, not the school.

Easy,
Gradually reduce and eventually remove welfare benefits

Next time I'm unemployed I'll be robbing your house then. Hopefully in the process I won't injure you such that you can't work, because if I do, you won't be getting any disability benefits so you'll probably just starve. On the plus side, undertakers would get a nice boost to their incomes.

The outcome is removal of the crippling cost of the welfare state, a workforce empowered and educated enough to work. The reduced need for police forces, prisons, social services and all the other government departments and Quangos that go towards patching up the tulip that they deliver in the first place.

Remove the state from having any functional provision of services and act purely as a controller of businesses - breaking up monopolies for example. create a second tier business system that enables provision of certain services (elderly care) to be delivered under say a cooperative system/model such as Waitrose.

So the state shouldn't provide any services at all? Privatisation of railways, water and energy supplies has been such a roaring success hasn't it...

Make all unemployed earn their benefits by cleaning graffiti and litter or answering phones.

Paying NI whilst they're working isn't enough I suppose.

The public sector workers newly unemployed can start at the beginning by going to east Anglia and picking fruit instead thus replacing all the immigrants. lots of investment in training (difference between an apple and a pear!)

I'm not sure there's enough fruit in East Anglia to keep them all busy.

Bring back the workhouses where the poor can work and look after each others kids, with good education, sport, healthcare.

You think a state run manufacturer would be able to compete with the chinese, when the workers are compelled to work there rather than choosing to? Sounds like an amusing way to burn vast sums of money for no benefit to me. Not sure when "the poor" will look for real jobs in this scheme, either.

Incentivise business creators by reducing rates, reducing taxes of the lower paid, remove corporation tax completely.

A plan that's worked extremely well for Ireland.

[Freamon]

You could argue that It'll pay for itself. You'll take less in income tax but more in VAT, excise duty and corporation tax as people spend the money, and as the economy starts growing the overall tax take will grow with it. 35% of £1.7 trillion is actually a bit more than 37% of £1.6 trillion. It would also reduce the number of people on benefits and reduce the amount of benefits due to those on them, according to the ONS working tax credits

You could also look at tweaking some consumption taxes e.g. increase duty on wine & spirits, which in terms of net contribution to the Exchequer has almost halved in real terms in the last 30 years.

Edit: I can't believe no one has made a game of this. I mean a proper one where you play economics and politics on a global scale against other players. I suppose civilisation is close.

Spending money to try and "stimulate growth" is a bit of a gamble though, and hasn't always paid off in the past. Japan has been trying to do this for years, but it turned out that actually people just used the extra money to pay down debt and build up savings. Given the level of personal indebtedness in the UK, and the fact that the population is starting to wake up and see that spend spend spend isn't always a great idea, there's no guarantee the gamble will pay off.