Reply to: Modern Devs eh....

[doodab]

Cock waggling over how is the best programmer is not what we do here sunshine.

How about that?

[MarillionFan]

Cock waggling over how is the best programmer is not what we do here sunshine.

Exactly. It's about pwning.

[minestrone]

I agree, look at the best in any field and I can guarantee they don't spent a few hours a day training, if you think tiger woods just woke up one day playing perfect golf then you are dreaming. The best programmers are programming most of their waking day.

Cock waggling over how is the best programmer is not what we do here sunshine.

[russell]

Everyone with a "flair" or "natural talent" turns out to have developed it by having done a lot of what is called "deliberate practice" starting from a young age. This is true of all sorts of musicians, athletes, writers as well as programmers. The current thinking is that it takes about 10 years of stretching to do something a little bit harder than you have done before to become an expert, although this varies a little from discipline to discipline.

I agree, look at the best in any field and I can guarantee they don't spent a few hours a day training, if you think tiger woods just woke up one day playing perfect golf then you are dreaming. The best programmers are programming most of their waking day.

[doodab]

Not necessarily.. some just have a flair for it I guess, others have to work at it night and day. Granted some of the latter turn out to be very good, but equally a lot still can't write decent code - even if they do know the name of every design pattern in the book.

Everyone with a "flair" or "natural talent" turns out to have developed it by having done a lot of what is called "deliberate practice" starting from a young age. This is true of all sorts of musicians, athletes, writers as well as programmers. The current thinking is that it takes about 10 years of stretching to do something a little bit harder than you have done before to become an expert, although this varies a little from discipline to discipline.

[Dark Black]

The good programmers have always done this. Like any profession, they got good by spending all their time on it, rather than having a life.

Not necessarily.. some just have a flair for it I guess, others have to work at it night and day. Granted some of the latter turn out to be very good, but equally a lot still can't write decent code - even if they do know the name of every design pattern in the book.

Don't get me wrong, if people want to spend all their life geeking it up in front of a PC then that's their call. Not for me though - myself and many others have managed to become proficient without the need to do that.

[mudskipper]

Jeez I read that book once.

Me too - it was a real Thriller.

[amcdonald]

Fair one - but not on a Friday lunchtime!!

You have a point

[doodab]

Most of these are just passing fads, although admittedly being able to spout chapter and verse about them in an interview might land you a plum contract.

But I mean have you heard of Jackson Structured Programming for example? Thought not - That rather proves my point.

If you don't bother to keep abreast of the passing fads and the real trends hidden among them, then you aren't going to be of use for very long. Being able to unlearn stuff is quite a handy skill as well.

I'm actually quite proud of the fact I can name more famous computer scientists than characters from eastenders.

[Zippy]

But I mean have you heard of Jackson Structured Programming for example? Thought not - That rather proves my point.

Jeez I read that book once.

[MarillionFan]

But I mean have you heard of Jackson Structured Programming for example? Thought not - That rather proves my point.

Is that Jacksons five structured steps of programming or the Jackson Five as it's known in the trade?

[EternalOptimist]

I always reckoned that a good dev, could work about 8 times better and faster than an average dev. That means they can get a days work done before 10 oclock, then either bum around or dabble, or really get some work done.

and the gurus were 8 times faster and better than the good guys.

I met a guru, he was the guy that got me into contracting and boy, was he sh1t hot.
He was always three steps ahead of the game, a maths genius and nothing fazed him
a truly excellent bloke.

[OwlHoot]

The guys that only know what they work on and look blank when you ask them about Code First or design by contract or dependency injection are the ones that perpetuate the disastrous systems that inhabit most larger companies, they repeat the mistakes that were fixed a decade ago.

Most of these are just passing fads, although admittedly being able to spout chapter and verse about them in an interview might land you a plum contract.

But I mean have you heard of Jackson Structured Programming for example? Thought not - That rather proves my point.

[doodab]

I agree with d000hg here, I find the best developers have a passion for development and enjoy spending time on it outside work. I certainly do, you can also have a social life as well.

I agree. I spend more time coding & reading about coding outside of work than I do when I'm there.

[russell]

The good programmers have always done this. Like any profession, they got good by spending all their time on it, rather than having a life.

edit: It seems I inadvertently agreed with MF.

I agree with d000hg here, I find the best developers have a passion for development and enjoy spending time on it outside work. I certainly do, you can also have a social life as well.

The guys that only know what they work on and look blank when you ask them about Code First or design by contract or dependency injection are the ones that perpetuate the disastrous systems that inhabit most larger companies, they repeat the mistakes that were fixed a decade ago.