Reply to: Tax on Company computers

[ASB]

Yes I'm saying that. I pay for these things personally. The broadband connection is mine: if I made significant use of it for business ("I uploaded my CV" does not count) then I'd think about claiming a proportion. Or maybe not, on the grounds that I'd have the connection anyway.

Likewise the mobile phones. They are mine. I claim some of the bill when there is unusually high business activity, eg lots of foreign calls. Otherwise, it's just a normal cost of living.

I just don't have the mentality of minimising tax by using business stuff for personal use.


Are you saying that you think it's not stealing to do what you mention? Or are just just saying that there's nothing wrong with stealing?

Admirable, but overzealous under UK rules.

Take simply the phone. Current UK legislation (your regime may of course be different) says that an employer can provide a phone. It can pay the bill. If the employer chooses to pay for personal calls then this attracts a BIK charge on the user. This is currently nil (but used to be rather more than that).

Of course stealing a ream of A4 from the client if wrong, but you do seem to be lumping rather too many things together.

[zathras]

Lemme see: company gives you the benefit of personal use of a laptop, so you don't have to buy one with your own money net of tax. So that's a benefit in kind with a monetary value. Chancellor wants you to pay tax on that.

Yes, that does sound fair. Is that what you don't like about it?

The original principle behind the HCI initiative was 2 fold

1. To encourage the use of computers and by extension the skills of the workforce

2. To make home working more attractive and therefore reduce the number of people commuting.

By removing it the inescapable conclusion is that the government wants us to be unskilled in the use of new technology and is happy for us to put pressure on the transport infrastructure by making totally pointless jouneys into an office.

[ASB]

This seems to fit in really well with the "lease a PC" scheme. Here employers are actively encouraged to lease equipment to the employees. Anf gflog it to them for a tenner after 3 years. The payments the employee make come from salary before deductions, i.e. full tax and NI (ee and er) relief.

[Mailman]

Is it OK because "everybody" does it?

BUT...why does everybody do it?

Perhaps the answer is...because paying tax has become so oppresive in this country.

Maybe if Gordo actually made the tax system easy to use and stopped taxing everything under the sun then people will stop trying to use all "legal" means possible to avoid paying tax.

And taxing computers lent to employees is another example of taxing everything under the sun, which in turn drives people towards tax avoidance.

Mailman

[Mailman]

Are we perhaps reading too much in to the wording here?

To me it looks like this only applies to computers that are on loan. The laptop I have been provided at work is not on loan as its merely part of the tools I need to use to be successful in my job.

On the other hand...if Im given a pc to take home AND also have a laptop at work then Id say this is where Im being "loaned" a computer.

Mailman

[BoredBloke]

But with fairness in mind, when the DTI is encouraging the practice, it hardly seems fair for the IR to be penalising those who follow the guidence of the DTI. In the same way that the DTI was still promoting the low salaries and dividends as an advantage to being ltd when the IR were clamping down on it.

The fact that they are doing this is neither hear nor there for me, it is the fact that again they have actually promoted a practice which, once enough people have latched onto it, they then tax.

So if your job entails out of hours working and/or the need to be mobile, it hardly seems fair to be taxed on your laptop because you have the facility to use it at home.

[SAPBoy]

I assume that you deduct the time spent posting on internet forums from your client's invoice each month as well?

[TwoWolves]

Resistance is futile against the New Labour cyborgs.

On the face of it it doesn't seem so unfair that The Revenue is closing loopholes in tax avoidance however there is another side to all of this when you look at the bigger picture.

If the government wants this country to maintain market leadership in the highly competitive knowledge based economy we must maintain a flexible and well educated workforce. Contractors are important in this equation because they allow companies to expand their IT knowledge base quickly when required for new projects and shrink again rapidly at project maturation. If this base of flexible knowledge is to be maintained there must be incentives as working on your own has its risks and requires extra dedication from the individual. This government is reducing these incentives to a bare minimum and ultimately will pay the price because if the contracting base disappears the only solution for smaller companies will be outsourcing to foreign countries, ultimately reducing the UK taxable base and market leadership. We will all be the poorer.

But we all know that.

[expat]

If your contracting work dries up Expat, I'm sure there will be a place for you at the Revenue working on IR35 cases and chasing those evil "stealing" tax dodgers who make a personal call on a works phone.

Is it OK because "everybody" does it?

[expat]

I have to agree with expat on the last few statements.

I too use my home NTL line for company business and my PAYG O2 phones (which cost nothing to run anyway - £10-20/month each).

I think that if you siphon all the cash out of your company wherever possible then ultimately you are only shooting yourself in the foot as you will have to work even harder to maintain the company's finances.

Well.... actually I object to siphoning off money for personal use without paying the tax that's due on it, not because it's inadvisable but because it's wrong.

[expat]

I am saying that you have to take a grown-up and reasonable view about the level and circumstances of such use before being able to simply say "its stealing"

Yes, fair enough. I know everybody steals pencils (even if I don't) and I think it's no big deal.

Maybe it is though. Scofflaw culture, self-centre, the only crime is being caught, that sort of thing?

Mainly, I don't mind if people bitch about losing a free gift, but I object to people trying to argue that right is on their side, when it's not.

[eternalnomad]

Are you saying that you think it's not stealing to do what you mention? Or are just just saying that there's nothing wrong with stealing?

I am saying that you have to take a grown-up and reasonable view about the level and circumstances of such use before being able to simply say "its stealing"

Gaydon himself (to much media fanfare) created a scheme where company provided PC's for employees could be used without BIK charge (the first £500 of it anyway) even when the PC was used "wholly for private purposes"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/ebi...working-04.htm

Are you saying that our esteemed chancellor and the HMRC were condoning, neigh encouraging theft of company assets and tax evasion ?

[Mailman]

Expat is sorta right though...for something to be for business use then it must only be used for business use. If you start using it for personal use then there is a tax charge to be paid, after all...its only fair!

Mailman

[expat]

If your contracting work dries up Expat, I'm sure there will be a place for you at the Revenue working on IR35 cases and chasing those evil "stealing" tax dodgers who make a personal call on a works phone.

Why so sarky? Is it so bad to speak of paying the tax that is due? I'm disappointed.

[DimPrawn]

If your contracting work dries up Expat, I'm sure there will be a place for you at the Revenue working on IR35 cases and chasing those evil "stealing" tax dodgers who make a personal call on a works phone.