Reply to: US concentration camps

[Fungus]

The war loan repayments were finally completed in 2004, I believe.

Yes I heard that too.

We may well have received money from America under the Marshall plan.

However, America stood on the sidelines for several years while we evacuated our troops from Northern Europe and then tried our best to stand up to Germany, including attacks on the shipping lines by Germany in an attempt to starve us. We were helped by America only is so much as we could buy goods from them. And in order to get the capital we sold substantial amounts of overseas investments, in areas such as South America. So in practice America did rather well out of the war, at least until late 1941 when it entered the war. And the stimulation to the economy ro build the armaments required by American and other forces can't have harmed the US. Our economy was near bankrupt by the end.

As others have said, once Germany declared war on America, the game was up, with fighting on two fronts being too much to withstand.

It does seem odd that Hitler was able to conquer so much of Europe, which he could presumably have held, and yet he went on to declare war on Russia and America, which surely he should have realised was unrealistic.

[PerlOfWisdom]

The war loan repayments were finally completed in 2004, I believe.

Is that why we had a massive tax reduction in that year?

[sasguru]

A debate point arising here perhaps,my imnpression was that while Germany had the US investors falling overthemselves with the Marshall plan to rebduild German industry.

Sadly there was no such reciprocal investment from the US for Uk industry, in fact Britain had to, and perhasp still are, paying the US for War Loans.

This needs to be researched PW, so Im not saying this is de facto merely my impression.

The war loan repayments were finally completed in 2004, I believe.

[AlfredJPruffock]

I read somewhere that we got the same amount as Germany and we spent it on setting up the NHS.

A debate point arising here perhaps,my imnpression was that while Germany had the US investors falling overthemselves with the Marshall plan to rebduild German industry.

Sadly there was no such reciprocal investment from the US for Uk industry, in fact Britain had to, and perhasp still are, paying the US for War Loans.

This needs to be researched PW, so Im not saying this is de facto merely my impression.

[PerlOfWisdom]

unlike Germany there was no Marshall plan to rebuild the economy consequently the economy was in the doldrums for almost 20 years.

I read somewhere that we got the same amount as Germany and we spent it on setting up the NHS.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Political expediency, Alf, no more and no less. The war could not be won without the Soviets and that was the price the western allies were prepared to pay to keep them onside.

Oh and because come Spring 1945 the Soviet war machine was producing more tanks per month than the German war machine produced in a year. As we now know, Patton foresaw what was to come and was demonised for saying so.

Yes by the same token, perhaps we ought to have just kept out of the War given that the intervention to Protect Polands freedom ended in the betrayal of Poland to Communism.

A disgraceful state of affairs.

Without having to divert his forces to Britain Hitler could well have delivered a decisive and final blow to the Soviet Union, or both sides would have exhausted each other, at any rate Britains infrastructure was ruined by the War and unlike Germany there was no Marshall plan to rebuild the economy consequently the economy was in the doldrums for almost 20 years.

Perhaps this bungling also accounts for Churchill being voted out of office after the war.

But whats done is done ...

[sasguru]

Political expediency, Alf, no more and no less. The war could not be won without the Soviets and that was the price the western allies were prepared to pay to keep them onside.

Oh and because come Spring 1945 the Soviet war machine was producing more tanks per month than the German war machine produced in a year. As we now know, Patton foresaw what was to come and was demonised for saying so.

Not to mention the cold harsh reality. In 1941 Churchill was in no position to realistically help Poland even if he had wanted to ...

[Lucifer Box]

If we entered the War as a result of the Nazi invasion of Poland why did why sit with our arms folded and agree to allow Stalin to occupy Poland ?

Political expediency, Alf, no more and no less. The war could not be won without the Soviets and that was the price the western allies were prepared to pay to keep them onside.

Oh and because come Spring 1945 the Soviet war machine was producing more tanks per month than the German war machine produced in a year. As we now know, Patton foresaw what was to come and was demonised for saying so.

[EternalOptimist]

colder than in '35 ?

[threaded]

The vodka.

[EternalOptimist]

what was cold ?

[Mailman]

Yet by sheer grit they managed to hold the Nazis outside Moscow

This wasnt all due to the massive determination and organisation of the Red Army. Hitlers interference with the drive to moscow had a massive impact on not only the course of the campaign BUT then entire war.

then after defeating the Nazis at Stalingrad showed their true training by rolling the Nazis back thousands of miles all they way back to Berlin,

Again...had Hitler left his Generals to fight the war Germany would not have lost the entire 6th Army in Stalingrad.

Having said that Germany could have absorbed the loss of the 6th Army without too much strain on reserves just as they could have absorbed the loss of half a million men during the Normandy Campaign...HOWEVER... Germany could not absorbe the losses of men and equipment from both battles.

when the Soviets were being attacked they had no effective strategy hence the Nazis early sucesses, but when they counter attacked nobody could oppose them.

They had no effective strategy because all their best leaders had been "liquidated". Up until the Perges the Red Army was considered one of the best armies in Europe. The Red Airforce one of the most effective and technologically advanced. However with the loss of all that operational experience and the appointment of the Political Commisars in to key positions meant that individual initiative was quashed and now one did anything without the approval from GHQ, you couldnt even wipe your arse without first getting approval from General Breshnev!

Mailman

[threaded]

It was cold?

[EternalOptimist]

a brilliant analysis Alf. except for one small thing

could you explain why this magnificent juggernaught failed to duff up Finland in the Winter war of 1939 ?

[AlfredJPruffock]

And if Stalin had not purged his army of a large proportion of its officers in the late 30's, Hitler would not have had as much success as he did against Russia, and the war might have ended sooner.

Yet you have to bear in mind the Soviet army had only been prepared and trained to be an attacking force ie under Soviet Doctirne they would liberating Capitalist states from the tyranny of that system,I guess to the tyrranny of another system, so the Soviet Army was not at all prepared for a defensive role.

Yet by sheer grit they managed to hold the Nazis outside Moscow then after defeating the Nazis at Stalingrad showed their true training by rolling the Nazis back thousands of miles all they way back to Berlin, when the Soviets were being attacked they had no effective strategy hence the Nazis early sucesses, but when they counter attacked nobody could oppose them.