Reply to: The House of Lords...

[Spartacus]

Point taken, although you cant beat a good old burnin.

I know, but we have to move with the times and embrace our multi-cultural society, doncha know. I'm feeling enriched already.

[Mr Crosby]

It's beheading these days, Mr Crosby. Don't want to upset the muslims.

Point taken, although you cant beat a good old burnin.

[Spartacus]

It's beheading these days, Mr Crosby. Don't want to upset the muslims.

[Mr Crosby]

Burn them.

[zathras]

I have a problem with the current system whereby someone who donates money to Teflon Tony's latest wheez gets a peerage, and is then able to influence the country. The system stinks. A bit like New Lier really.

But I don't like the old system either. Alternatives:

1) The House of Lords is elected by independent committees and includes people who have made a significant contribution to society: charity workers, famous writers, journalists, some businessmen and so on. In other words, the great and the good.

2) A system is created whereby the House of Lords reflects the voting patterns of the last election rather than the first past the post system. Some form of proportional representation system should be used, and local elections held every 5 to 10 years allow us to select 3 or 4 candidates in our area. The winning candidate gets a seat. But losing candidates are then potentially elected by adding up all national votes, and letting in losers with the highest votes, in order to get a proportional representation. That way we don't have the parties choosing candidates i.e. we vote for candidates and unpopular ones do not get votes. The problem with this system is that we will probably be voting for unknowns who we hardly ever hear about. A bit like European elections then.

But as I've said, the current corrupt system stinks something rotten and allows New Lier to stuff the H of L with their own cronies.

Your missing the point. The thing about people being chosen because of an accident at birth is that they owe that position to nobody, the owe patronage to nobody.

All other systems rely on the person in that position owing patrongage somebody else. Even a committee has to be chosen by somebody (rather like Gordon Brown choosing over half the MPC of the so called 'Independent' Bank of England). Can you imagine a committee made up of placemen for Toby Blair

For someone who professes to hate the current set up in the HoL TB has created more peers than any other PM. in memory.

(He also has the worst voting record of any PM since the start of the 20th century, a level somewhere around 4-5%)

[stackpole]

Nah, a random selection of personalities by birth is far better. We've got the sh1te that results from election or selection in the commons.

[Fungus]

I have a problem with the current system whereby someone who donates money to Teflon Tony's latest wheez gets a peerage, and is then able to influence the country. The system stinks. A bit like New Lier really.

But I don't like the old system either. Alternatives:

1) The House of Lords is elected by independent committees and includes people who have made a significant contribution to society: charity workers, famous writers, journalists, some businessmen and so on. In other words, the great and the good.

2) A system is created whereby the House of Lords reflects the voting patterns of the last election rather than the first past the post system. Some form of proportional representation system should be used, and local elections held every 5 to 10 years allow us to select 3 or 4 candidates in our area. The winning candidate gets a seat. But losing candidates are then potentially elected by adding up all national votes, and letting in losers with the highest votes, in order to get a proportional representation. That way we don't have the parties choosing candidates i.e. we vote for candidates and unpopular ones do not get votes. The problem with this system is that we will probably be voting for unknowns who we hardly ever hear about. A bit like European elections then.

But as I've said, the current corrupt system stinks something rotten and allows New Lier to stuff the H of L with their own cronies.

[IR35 Avoider]

And if any elected politician ever shows signs of independent thought, that they might go against the party line occasionally, how many of their party will elect them?

In a secret vote that's potentially going to put someone in power for decades, MPs will have an incentive to elect someone whose intellect and integrity they respect, rather than whoever the whips say complies best with the party manifesto for the current parliament.

[bogeyman]

When Britain really ruled the waves –
(In good Queen Bess’s time)
The House of Peers made no pretence
To intellectual eminence,
Or scholarship sublime;
When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
As every child can tell,
The House of Peers, throughout the war,
Did nothing in particular,
And did it very well:
And while the House of Peers withholds
Its legislative hand,
And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere with matters which
They do not understand,
As bright will shine Great Britain’s rays
As in King George’s glorious days!

Hear Hear

[expat]

I don't want Lords elected by population as a whole - what's the point of creating a house that doesn't differ in character from the commons? The whole point of the Lords is to come at things from a different angle, to do what they think is right without caring about the opinion of anyone outside (government or voters.)

When Britain really ruled the waves –
(In good Queen Bess’s time)
The House of Peers made no pretence
To intellectual eminence,
Or scholarship sublime;
When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
As every child can tell,
The House of Peers, throughout the war,
Did nothing in particular,
And did it very well:
And while the House of Peers withholds
Its legislative hand,
And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere with matters which
They do not understand,
As bright will shine Great Britain’s rays
As in King George’s glorious days!

[bogeyman]

I read Newspeak today
Oh Brother
Airstrip One had just
Won the War

They’d seen his face before,
Nobody was really sure if he was from the House of Lords.

I think you need to get over your Orwell fixation old boy.

I recommend Franz Kafka - the original and best distopian.

[Central-Scrutiniser]

I read Newspeak today
Oh Brother
Airstrip One had just
Won the War

They’d seen his face before,
Nobody was really sure if he was from the House of Lords.

[wendigo100]

My proposal is that just before each general election MPs compete to be elected by fellow MPs to fill any seats that have fallen vacant in the Lords. If elected they have a job for life, or until officially diagnosed senile anyway. An average cross-section of MPs from all parties will do a good job if promoted to the Lords where they are free to say what they really think.

A leopard does not change its spots.

Elected politicians, by definition, get where they are by not thinking for themselves. They say what people want to hear. They obey the whips. They climb the greasy pole. They always owe patronage to somebody.

And if any elected politician ever shows signs of independent thought, that they might go against the party line occasionally, how many of their party will elect them?

[threaded]

Oh, so senile members of the population don't get represented in your world view?

[IR35 Avoider]

I don't want Lords elected by population as a whole - what's the point of creating a house that doesn't differ in character from the commons? The whole point of the Lords is to come at things from a different angle, to do what they think is right without caring about the opinion of anyone outside (government or voters.)

My proposal is that just before each general election MPs compete to be elected by fellow MPs to fill any seats that have fallen vacant in the Lords. If elected they have a job for life, or until officially diagnosed senile anyway. An average cross-section of MPs from all parties will do a good job if promoted to the Lords where they are free to say what they really think.