Ltd vs LLP?

[expat]

Yeah I believe the choice for us was between Liberale or Generale, and we spun what we did to fit into the lower tax rate. No doubt we'll be stung like hell on the cotisation (regardless of income) but alas it seems to be either this or total evasion.

Whereabouts in France are you - was your accountant a local one?

I'm not in France any more. My accountant was local. And I'm afraid I don't recognise what you're referring to. If you are a self-employed knowledge worker then you can register as Profession Libérale if that's the way you choose to work. It has nothing to do with tax rates. I don't know what you mean by Générale, unless you're referring to the Régime Générale d'Imposition i.e. general tax method, which might be another way of saying salaried employee.

You don't have to spin anything: if you and the person paying you agree to make it self-employed (Libérale) then you have a right to (you must then register as such). If you both agree to make it a contract of employment then you have a right to.

One warning: tax is tax; but social payments (health, unemployment, retirement, family allowance, etc), which generally total more than tax per se, are made to the appropriate caisse, or contributions organisation; if you engage in employed and self-employed activities at the same time, you pay to both!

[tamper]

Yes, or here. Not that I know much, I did what my accountant told me to. I registered as Profession Liberale, i.e. what is usually called self-employed knowledge worker (i.e. what I sell is my knowledge, one way or another, as against a farmer, trader, or artisan; who sell what they've grown, bought, or made resp.)

That is not a company ("Société"), though you could do that, but there seem to be few advantages, which I suppose is why most IT contractors do it the way I did, as well as independent doctors, lawyers, and indeed accountants.

Yeah I believe the choice for us was between Liberale or Generale, and we spun what we did to fit into the lower tax rate. No doubt we'll be stung like hell on the cotisation (regardless of income) but alas it seems to be either this or total evasion.

Whereabouts in France are you - was your accountant a local one?

[expat]

ouch expat! Is Liberale the 48% or 65% tax one? I have one foot in France too, and my wife is there all the time, so she's setting this up at the moment - primarily because she's non-EU (and neither's our daughter) and wants to get into the health system. Interesting that the French accountants we've spoken to seem interested in maximising our tax liability!

Sorry - don't want to take my own thread off-topic, so maybe I can talk to you more about this elsewhere?

t

Yes, or here. Not that I know much, I did what my accountant told me to. I registered as Profession Liberale, i.e. what is usually called self-employed knowledge worker (i.e. what I sell is my knowledge, one way or another, as against a farmer, trader, or artisan; who sell what they've grown, bought, or made resp.)

That is not a company ("Société"), though you could do that, but there seem to be few advantages, which I suppose is why most IT contractors do it the way I did, as well as independent doctors, lawyers, and indeed accountants.

[tamper]

ouch expat! Is Liberale the 48% or 65% tax one? I have one foot in France too, and my wife is there all the time, so she's setting this up at the moment - primarily because she's non-EU (and neither's our daughter) and wants to get into the health system. Interesting that the French accountants we've spoken to seem interested in maximising our tax liability!

Sorry - don't want to take my own thread off-topic, so maybe I can talk to you more about this elsewhere?

t

[expat]

LLP will confuse agents and clients, what they don't understand they will ignore, hence you will lose business, best stick with Ltd.

I am afraid Threaded is right on the money here. The people offering you money will only give you it if you do it through a Ltd Co.

I've even had an agency in London call me in France for a contract in France when I was resident in France and registered as a self-employed business in France, and insist that I had to use my Ltd Co. I got round it by explaining slowly, «Profession Liberale», it's what the French call an IT contractor's Limited Company.....

[Fleetwood]

I work a lot with my wife

Bloody hell, rather you than me, mate.

F in "Imminent divorce" mode

[threaded]

LLP will confuse agents and clients, what they don't understand they will ignore, hence you will lose business, best stick with Ltd.

[tamper]

It's probably time to ditch the umbrella and get set up properly. I work a lot with my wife, so I'm thinking of setting up a Limited Liability Partnership.

However, I guess most of you are (in effect) one-man-band contractors, but have gone for a Limited (requiring additional paper directors) rather than an LLP, which appears to require fewer people and less paperwork overhead.

Can anyone advise as to the relative merits of the Ltd and the LLP?

Cheers,
tamper