Reply to: Tibco

[Mich the Tester]

Oh yes. They can be a bitch to load test though as the frameworks don't work too well with automated test tools.

Fine, loads of invoicing

Easy stuff doesn't make money in Testland.

[suityou01]

Oooh good, worthwhile for testers then?

Oh yes. They can be a bitch to load test though as the frameworks don't work too well with automated test tools.

[Mich the Tester]

I've seen the worse mess created with these tools. Worse than any code i've looked at.

Oooh good, worthwhile for testers then?

[suityou01]

What class of application would you build on this platform? It's mainly used for integration projects is it not?

Concisely, its a messaging platform with a bunch of connectors to abstract you from transport protocols. Some UI tools to drag 'n' drop inputs to outputs in a pipeline of data transforms. Some bespoke language to write scripts to munge data before putting it back on the pipeline. XML everywhere.

I've seen the worse mess created with these tools. Worse than any code i've looked at.

You create full web apps. Typical "cut yer teeth" type processes include

Onboarding (HR)
Holiday and absence tracking (HR)
Product application
Project management

Anything that is a business process really.

The common traps are to develop the processes in the wrong order, and develop them "in the silo" so they don't integrate very well. The idea is that the processes should flow seamlessly front to back, and leverage existing systems via SOA (also called orchestration in the Metastorm world)

[aussielong]

Err no not really. It's a BPM suite and a fookin expensive one at that. The BPM market is basically

Metastorm
Tibco
Appian
Oracle Aqualogics

It is good for the consultants, and is supposed to have an immediate ROI. The problem is that these "consultancies" hire spotty oiks off the street and bodyshop them into gigs as seasoned professionals (The accenture effect)

Remember workflow? Think workflow with RAD screen development. So you are plugging nodes together to achieve a business process. BPMN notation all the way.

So each process has a start middle end, each node belongs in a "swim lane" and each swim lane represents groups of users (or a user) (or systems).

Each node can be a user (screen), system event such as a timer / message, web service call, database update, decision (from biztalk for other rules engine) etc.

Clear? PM me or we can have a call and I can go into lots and lots of gory detail.

There is an open sores BPM suite called Intalio I have been meaning to learn.

Mopping up after the consultancies and providing truly expert advice has also kept me in shoes and handbags. Another 6 month extension looms (not confirmed, but likely)

What class of application would you build on this platform? It's mainly used for integration projects is it not?

Concisely, its a messaging platform with a bunch of connectors to abstract you from transport protocols. Some UI tools to drag 'n' drop inputs to outputs in a pipeline of data transforms. Some bespoke language to write scripts to munge data before putting it back on the pipeline. XML everywhere.

I've seen the worse mess created with these tools. Worse than any code i've looked at.

[suityou01]

Used BPMN loads, it makes sense to me. I also happen to like business process modelling (rather than workflow, back end process modelling for code) and watching the client get all het up when they see swimlanes of departmental/role responsibility - they find it all rather threatening.

I often describe BPM as next gen workflow, or workflow with RAD developer tools combined. Get's the point across concisely.

[ladymuck]

I like BPMN

Used BPMN loads, it makes sense to me. I also happen to like business process modelling (rather than workflow, back end process modelling for code) and watching the client get all het up when they see swimlanes of departmental/role responsibility - they find it all rather threatening.

[suityou01]

I did that on purpose btw. But thanks for trying.

The other pot's making noise again

[MarillionFan]

too

I did that on purpose btw. But thanks for trying.

[suityou01]

Good. Was getting worried there for a minute, thought I was selling myself to cheap.

too

[MarillionFan]

Business process management

Good. Was getting worried there for a minute, thought I was selling myself to cheap.

[suityou01]

What are you talking BPM here? Business Performance Measurement? or something else.

Business process management

[MarillionFan]

A good question. I would start here and learn the BPMN notation

Then try and use Intalio. This software is supposed to be usuable by non techs (arf arf) but they usually contain example processes so you can see how they are put together.

The real problem comes with learning to think in terms of business processes. If you are a coder then this takes about 6 months hating the tool, thinking "I could have written this in under a day in x,y,z language" and not seeing the bigger picture.

Also metastorm has a designer here which is not strictly BPMN and does not include swimlanes (up to v7.5, not sure what they have done in v9)

Also Metastorm have courses and a certified developer exam they will happily fleece you for.

BPM contracts are scarce and if you think you are getting £900 p/d then you would be wrong.

What are you talking BPM here? Business Performance Measurement? or something else.

[MarillionFan]

They had a nice little restuarant over the road from my office in Palo Alto. Good value food as well.

[suityou01]

So how does one go about learning this ?

A good question. I would start here and learn the BPMN notation

Then try and use Intalio. This software is supposed to be usuable by non techs (arf arf) but they usually contain example processes so you can see how they are put together.

The real problem comes with learning to think in terms of business processes. If you are a coder then this takes about 6 months hating the tool, thinking "I could have written this in under a day in x,y,z language" and not seeing the bigger picture.

Also metastorm has a designer here which is not strictly BPMN and does not include swimlanes (up to v7.5, not sure what they have done in v9)

Also Metastorm have courses and a certified developer exam they will happily fleece you for.

BPM contracts are scarce and if you think you are getting £900 p/d then you would be wrong.