Reply to: Whose death will bring the nation to a halt?

[MarillionFan]

I, for one, hope sincerely that Cliff bloody Richard never dies, because when he does, they'll be playing his songs on the radio and TV non-stop for weeks, there'll be Cliff Tribute songs brought out by tulipe boy bands, Cliff Tribute concerts, Cliff musicals, Cliff memorial services.

Allah help us.

Cliff will never 'die'. He's the Dorian Gray of pop! Gawd help us

[Mich the Tester]

I, for one, hope sincerely that Cliff bloody Richard never dies, because when he does, they'll be playing his songs on the radio and TV non-stop for weeks, there'll be Cliff Tribute songs brought out by tulipe boy bands, Cliff Tribute concerts, Cliff musicals, Cliff memorial services.

Allah help us.

[EternalOptimist]

Remember that the plans for EuroDisney started in the 1970's, long before the complex was built in Paris. As we moved into the 80's Thatcher had a brilliant working relationship with Reagan and might possibly have been able to pull some strings to get EuroDisney into the UK - which would have created one hell of a lot of jobs for at least one of these communities, and been a great foundation for future prosperity.

They would have been Mickey Mouse jobs
we need manufacturing jobs. like legoland

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I don't understand some of the anti-Thatcher comments made by others. I was young in the 70's but have memories of dead bodies piling up in morgues, rubbish piling up in streets, electricity rationed to 3 days a week, secondary strike action closing services which would have otherwise been okay. Are these Thatcher-haters so stupid that they want to return to the days when the Unions brought the UK to the edge?

The tree-day week was under a Tory government by the way. I reckon I'm a bit older than you. No, I don't want to return to that; you are right that Thatcher posed the question about who ran Britain - up to a point, but the victory she claimed for democracy over anti-democratic Union power was immediately sold to the highest bidder from big business. Now instead of being held to ransom by Unions, we're all bankrupted by US financiers - getting shafted by capitalism is still getting shafted.

My main objection to Thatcher however, was her clear hypocrisy over freedoms - it didn't extend to free speech - witness her ridiculous antics with Sein Fein (for whom I have no time incidentally), Peter Wright, the woman who nearly got her to tell the truth about the Belgrano, Clive Ponting et al. She trumpeted democracy and freedom only as long as people voted for what she wanted. Her despicable toadying up to General Pinochet and her attitude to South Africa were another couple of shining examples of her only caring about freedom democracy and human rights when it suited her.

- it was the likes of Scargill who brought such decimation to the coal industry because of his King Canute approach towards going forward. I think Bob Crow and other TU leaders are on the same mission today with the railways and public services - instead of embracing change and develop a better society for their workforce they instead block development to keep it in the third world. If they woke up and smelt the coffee they could work with government to create a much better environment for the future, and also protect the interests of those who are facing unemployment due to what has to happen to keep the UK alive.

Scargill was a pillock who didn't realise what Thacher was doing - but as for "embracing change" - on the central point; Scargill's claim that the NCB and Thatcher had an agenda to shut most of the pits, he was right - and yet, Thatcher and that mad bloke from the NCB with the paper bag on his head denied it. You can argue the merits of the economics of importing coal, but Thatcher (and I give her credit for this) was smart enough to realise that giving the Police a lot of overtime and decent pay, stockpiling coal and making sure people who had never seen a coal mine or a miner were listening to Scargill's crazier claims about regime change was always going to result in her winning. It wasn't great politics though - she turned down a chance to settle earlyish on because she wanted to smash the Mining industry and replace it and the other similar ones with the City. Funny how people think only Socialists do social engineering - she did more than most.


She also didn't cut taxes. Yes you read that right - in absolute terms and as a proportion of GDP, taxes rose under Thatcher. She was the Queen of what would later be called steath taxes, moving many progressive taxes into regressive ones like VAT increases.

[Saddo]

Is that really the Prime Minister's responsibility? Thatcher didn't destroy those industries; they were pretty much going to fail anyway. What she did that was different from what Labour would have done is not give into the unions and waste tax payers money propping them up. Lefties like to blame somebody else for their problems, and Thatcher was pretty convenient for that, but it doesn't make it true. The reason those communities were so devestated by the factory/mine closing down was because those communities were far too dependent on a single factory/mine

Which underlines my point really. I think if central government had had a mind to do it then at least some of those communities might have been able to evolve.

Remember that the plans for EuroDisney started in the 1970's, long before the complex was built in Paris. As we moved into the 80's Thatcher had a brilliant working relationship with Reagan and might possibly have been able to pull some strings to get EuroDisney into the UK - which would have created one hell of a lot of jobs for at least one of these communities, and been a great foundation for future prosperity.

[VectraMan]

I suggest that her biggest error was in not doing enough to rebuild the broken communities which resulted from closure of steelworks and mines (etc). She created a generation of underprivileged which I honestly wish hadn't happened, and I suspect that the rationale she was working to was spite towards those communities which had resisted change. We should have done more to bring those communities with us.

Is that really the Prime Minister's responsibility? Thatcher didn't destroy those industries; they were pretty much going to fail anyway. What she did that was different from what Labour would have done is not give into the unions and waste tax payers money propping them up. Lefties like to blame somebody else for their problems, and Thatcher was pretty convenient for that, but it doesn't make it true. The reason those communities were so devestated by the factory/mine closing down was because those communities were far too dependent on a single factory/mine.

As for the original question, I hope things have moved on a little bit so that when her Maj pops off, we get a more sensible public and media reaction than the somewhat OTT reaction to Diana's death.

[MarillionFan]

Socialists don't have vision or business acumen. They have a misplaced sense of what is right and fair & will ram it down your throat regardless of your views.

[Saddo]

I don't understand some of the anti-Thatcher comments made by others. I was young in the 70's but have memories of dead bodies piling up in morgues, rubbish piling up in streets, electricity rationed to 3 days a week, secondary strike action closing services which would have otherwise been okay. Are these Thatcher-haters so stupid that they want to return to the days when the Unions brought the UK to the edge?

As others have said, she had her faults. But she had the balls to take on the Unions which so many before her hadn't done and I applaud her for that.

I suggest that her biggest error was in not doing enough to rebuild the broken communities which resulted from closure of steelworks and mines (etc). She created a generation of underprivileged which I honestly wish hadn't happened, and I suspect that the rationale she was working to was spite towards those communities which had resisted change. We should have done more to bring those communities with us.

The real UK butchers however weren't Thatcher - it was the likes of Scargill who brought such decimation to the coal industry because of his King Canute approach towards going forward. I think Bob Crow and other TU leaders are on the same mission today with the railways and public services - instead of embracing change and develop a better society for their workforce they instead block development to keep it in the third world. If they woke up and smelt the coffee they could work with government to create a much better environment for the future, and also protect the interests of those who are facing unemployment due to what has to happen to keep the UK alive.

[Lockhouse]

To toast the fair lady as she makes her way to the afterlife.

As a bonus, it'll come in handy for the "dancing on her grave" party.

She had her faults and made some big mistakes. Nowhere near as many as the last lot did and she believed what she was saying which goes a long way in my book. She was undone over Europe but was the last PM who actually understood how to play the EU at it's own game. Everyone since has been naive or a fifth columnist.

[PRC1964]

Why?

To toast the fair lady as she makes her way to the afterlife.

As a bonus, it'll come in handy for the "dancing on her grave" party.

[AtW]

I keep a bottle of Champagne permanently on ice for the day Thatcher kicks the bucket.

Why?

[Alf W]

I keep a bottle of Champagne permanently on ice for the day Thatcher kicks the bucket.

[AtW]

It's the same as yours

password

No it's not, here is hint: it's the same password as I use on my luggage

[MarillionFan]

I hope sadguru never dies

And if he happens to die then I hope he'd keep the same password to his account

It's the same as yours

password

[AtW]

Somebody says 'next'?

I hope sadguru never dies

And if he happens to die then I hope he'd keep the same password to his account