Reply to: Hamas and the power of democracy

[zamzummim]

There is still no consensus that the wars were a bad thing, so dont make assumptions

[DodgyAgent]

That's the price of democracy,

When the British people where given a chance to stop the wars and killing, they chose not to !! their vote went to Blair and the war

When the Americans had a chance to choose peace, they didn't, they voted for Bush and his wars

When the Iraqis were given a chance they also choose shia(thought to be extreme Islam)


When the Germans were given the choice .. whom did they choose??

It is not a price, it is the choice of the people. This means that the leaders are accountable and take responsibility. There is still no consensus that the wars were a bad thing, so dont make assumptions

[zamzummim]

That's the price of democracy,

When the British people where given a chance to stop the wars and killing, they chose not to !! their vote went to Blair and the war

When the Americans had a chance to choose peace, they didn't, they voted for Bush and his wars

When the Iraqis were given a chance they also choose shia(thought to be extreme Islam)


When the Germans were given the choice .. whom did they choose??

[Fungus]

The important bit is that muslim palestine never existed. As you said yourself, the philistines were related to the greeks, not ayerabs.

Mailman

Lord knows what you are on about. The important point is that the Israel that we see today is a modern invention, and that for several thousand years the inhabitants of that area were majority Arab with small numbers of Jews, Christians etc.

Anyway, you don't want to go giving Plaid Cymru ideas or there'll be Welsh settlers flooding into England, claiming it as their ancestral homeland.

[Churchill]

The important bit is that muslim palestine never existed. As you said yourself, the philistines were related to the greeks, not ayerabs.

Mailman

You really are dense, aren't you?

[Mailman]

The important bit is that muslim palestine never existed. As you said yourself, the philistines were related to the greeks, not ayerabs.

Mailman

[OwlHoot]

Palestine has never existed as a country in its own right ...

Wrong - In the time of King David or thereabouts, about 1200 BC, the Phillistines settled land along a coastal strip which became a separate state called Philistia. They were Greek settlers (Phillis = Hellas) and more advanced in most respects than the Jewish people of the time. (Goliath's real name was probably something like Agoliathes.)

The whole land has always been Israel.

Wrong - In the time of Christ, and for centuries before that, what is modern Israel was a patchwork of separate countries, as a historical map shows, with the Israelites occupying a small central region that didn't even include Jerusalem. The Bible gives a somewhat one-sided view of their significance.

Hadrian (Roman Emperor) after he conquered the land and because of his hatred for Jews, renamed Judea "Palestine" after the Philistines

Hadrian was emperor in around 120 AD. Palestine first became part of the Roman empire when it was conquered by Gnaeus Pompeius in 62 BC. By your timescale the Duke of Wellington would have been running the Falklands War

Feck it, it's friday evening. What am I doing wasting my time correcting Chico's posts yet again? I'm off ...

[Fungus]

Links or it never happened

Mailman

I assuming that your garbled text means "Post links to prove it happened". Well my information comes from several books. I suggest you do some reading. Jonathon Dimbleby has one called "The Palestinians" though I can't comment on the quality. One I liked was co-written by a Rabbi and an Arab scholar. Naturally it was separated into two distinct parts, each written by one author. I was provoked into reading up on this by a Jewish Israeli colleague, who was a likeable lad and a bit of a leftie by Israeli standards (though still reassuringly right wing).

[Mailman]

Links or it never happened

Mailman

[Fungus]

Fungus are you arguing with historical fact? Or because it does not fit your namby-pamby God-hating, anti-Semitic worldview, it therefore does not count?

You said: "Palestine has never existed as a country in its own right ... The whole land has always been Israel."

That is not fact. That is fiction. And to point that out is not anti-Semitic. You'd do well not to cry wolf.

[Chico]

The nutty extremist Christians in America are very pro Israel. They too come out with the sort of nonsense you have posted. Something to do with the day of reckoning when sinners will disappear, and the faithful will live forever with as much beer and pizza as they want.

Fungus are you arguing with historical fact? Or because it does not fit your namby-pamby God-hating, anti-Semitic worldview, it therefore does not count?

[Fungus]

Palestine has never existed as a country in its own right ... The whole land has always been Israel. Hadrian (Roman Emperor) after he conquered the land and because of his hatred for Jews, renamed Judea "Palestine" after the Philistines , sworn enemy of the Jews.

The nutty extremist Christians in America are very pro Israel. They too come out with the sort of nonsense you have posted. Something to do with the day of reckoning when sinners will disappear, and the faithful will live forever with as much beer and pizza as they want.

[Fungus]

Expulsion?

I thought the Palestinians left voluntarily expecting the Arab league to sweep in and push everyone left behind into the sea.

And then the Arab league didn't

And so, now they're refugees.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong!

Even Jewish organisations concede that at least 50,000 Arabs were forcibly evacuated i.e. at the point of a gun, and that hundreds of thousands fled out of fear. At the time of independence, and the ensuing war, the Jews murdered an entire Arab village. Rumours of the event spread, and many Arabs fled to escape the Jews. In practice the future first PM of Israel, David Ben Gurion, and colleagues, probably abhored the massacres, but they encouraged the spread of rumours of further atrocities, thus solving their main problem i.e. how to get rid of the Arabs. Many Arabs stayed - about 20% of Israelis are Arabs - and ironically they are better off in Israel than in many/most Arab countries. At least it's easy to find a doctor/dentist/lawyer.

[Chico]

Palestine has never existed as a country in its own right ... The whole land has always been Israel. Hadrian (Roman Emperor) after he conquered the land and because of his hatred for Jews, renamed Judea "Palestine" after the Philistines , sworn enemy of the Jews.

[threaded]

Expulsion?

I thought the Palestinians left voluntarily expecting the Arab league to sweep in and push everyone left behind into the sea.

And then the Arab league didn't

And so, now they're refugees.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong.