Reply to: Oh dear: Iran again!!

[AlfredJPruffock]

No they are interested in securing their financial/political stability. Oil is certainly a factor. If the yanks were to single mindedly and ruthlessly grab the stuff they would set the rest of the world against them.. therefore counter productive and clearly not in their interests. Oil is a means to an end, it is not an end in itself.

Interestingly perhaps Bushs admission that the US is an Oil addict does confirm that Oil is prime factor in its self interest , the first stage of breaking addiction is the acknowledgement that there is a problem, that first stage has now been reached.

Imagine that the US adminstration were Cocaine rather than Oil Addicts, then we would no doubt see invasions of countrys like Colombia and Peru in order to ensure that freedom and democracy flourish there.

[DodgyAgent]

"Oil is not the primary motive, self interest is the primary motive."

Yup, but Oil is currently what the yanks are interested in...

No they are interested in securing their financial/political stability. Oil is certainly a factor. If the yanks were to single mindedly and ruthlessly grab the stuff they would set the rest of the world against them.. therefore counter productive and clearly not in their interests. Oil is a means to an end, it is not an end in itself.

[DodgyAgent]

What exactly does that mean DA? Do you even have an opinion on this matter? I, along with others, say that the primary motive for US pressure to have Iran referred to the Security Council or any mitlitary action against Iran is the trade of oil. Why do YOU think the yanks have such a hard-on for the Iranians? What is so different about the land of Iran comapred to N.Korea, India or Pakistan?

India and Pakistan are to various extents democratic countries. There are therefore checks and balances in place that effectively mean the two countries cancel each other out and make it very unlikely that nuclear weapons will ever get used. There is therefore little point to the US/FranceUK in trying to get these countries to remove the "bomb".. simply such an exercise would be futile and coounter productive. In this case as ever the USA is acting in "self interest"

N.Korea, is indeed dangerous and the rest of the world seek to contain them by effectively leaving them alone, or rattling sabres whenever they get out of hand. Korea offers a threat but they have no real allies and cannot destabilise other countries. Self interest on behalf of the USA is the driving force in their policy of containing Korea.

This brings us neatly back to Iran. it is in the USA's interest that the middle East is stable. Iran is threatening to destabilise the middle East by having the bomb. The bomb of course will be in the hands of a number of fanatics who may choose to use it aggressively against Israel in particular. Although oil is indeed a primary consideration (for all middle east countries, not just the USA) in all this, it is because the middle east has the wealth as a result of having oil that it can access nuclear technology. This is the paradox that I am not sure you or Alf really understand.

In other words a nuclear bomb in the hands of a few religious fanatics in Iran offers a greater threat. So quite where this concept of "punishment" comes from is beyond me. The USA is not setting out a list of "do's" and "donts", they are simply acting in their own ineterests. In my view these interests are that peace should prevail and democracies should grow. The key is how the world enables these changes to happen, particularly the USA who have a misguided tendency to use too much force, in my opinion.

[Churchill]

"Oil is not the primary motive, self interest is the primary motive."

Yup, but Oil is currently what the yanks are interested in...

[ALM]

What have politics got to do with punishment??? Oil is not the primary motive, self interest is the primary motive.

What exactly does that mean DA? Do you even have an opinion on this matter? I, along with others, say that the primary motive for US pressure to have Iran referred to the Security Council or any mitlitary action against Iran is the trade of oil. Why do YOU think the yanks have such a hard-on for the Iranians? What is so different about the land of Iran comapred to N.Korea, India or Pakistan?

[ALM]

Fark I love it how you goons gloss over real facts yet get stuck on e-myths so easily

Mailman

E-Myths?! Wern't you the guy who was harping on about how many respected economists backed your prediction that a Euro oil bourse would actually help the US dollar! So have you had any luck in digging out the names of these economists or are you still avoiding the question?

[AlfredJPruffock]

BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!

You might want to tell the 2000 or so "secular" members of parliament who were banned from standing for the recent elections.

Yeah...genuine elections alright...BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Fark I love it how you goons gloss over real facts yet get stuck on e-myths so easily

Mailman

Do you mean the communists Mailman?

I have no objection with banning communists, fine if you do.

PS any news from those leading economists you mentioned re the petrodollar ?

[Mailman]

Certainly I do agree with you that it would be folly to attack Iran, a county who has genuine elections for leadership, I find Chicos gungho attitude very disturbing, he seems to be hell bent on War with Iran no matter the consequences.

BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!

You might want to tell the 2000 or so "secular" members of parliament who were banned from standing for the recent elections.

Yeah...genuine elections alright...BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Fark I love it how you goons gloss over real facts yet get stuck on e-myths so easily

Mailman

[DodgyAgent]

A rather absurd comment IMO. There seems to have been a massive hoo-haa with regards to Iran over the past few months. If you have a more plausible explanation as to why the US seems so desperate to pursue Iran why not put it forward instead launching personal attacks on those who rightfully identify oil as the primary motive?

IMO the issue has as little to do with Iran's nuclear threat as the Iraq war had to do with it's alleged WMD. If nuclear proliferation was an issue how and why have India and Pakistan been allowed to amass nuclear arsenals? In the case of India, the yanks are actually partnering them on their nuclear plans! Why no punishment for North Korea either? Why no punishment for Israel? It seems to me that oil is clearly the primary motive. Your failure to recognise this is either evidence of naivity or dishonesty on your part.

What have politics got to do with punishment??? Oil is not the primary motive, self interest is the primary motive.

[DodgyAgent]

Is it mere coincidence that suddenly the pressure racks up againts Iran that this coincides witht next months opening of the Iranian Oil Bourse ?

.

Alf,

There is no coincidence. Is it not the Iranians who have just themselves raised this business with regards to the recent announcements that they have made. It is also the French who are pushing for action to be taken against Iran as much as the USA.

[BobTheCrate]

I have few objections to the suspension of aid to Iran and imposition of sanctions, unless they abide by the rules.

Shake it up a little and see what (if anything) changes.

It might work and is probably better than doing nothing.

[AlfredJPruffock]

It's good entertainment value, though ...

True, it does brighten up an otherwise dull day in the office.

Excuse me , got a World to run here.

[sasguru]

You know I think you have a point there, I must remember not to respond to any of his rantings in the future.

It's good entertainment value, though ...

[AlfredJPruffock]

Chico is a blathering twat, and his opinion is of no consequence.

You know I think you have a point there, I must remember not to respond to any of his rantings in the future.

[sasguru]

Having cleared that issue, its good to learn that we both oppose millitary intervention in Iran for the reasons you have stated,I think its Chicos turn now to justify his point of view.

Chico is a blathering twat, and his opinion is of no consequence.