Reply to: Rendition flights

[Fungus]

If this were true torture would have died out years ago, its simple, if something works it continues if it doesn't it dies out/stops the rest is subjective b0ll0cks!

Not so. Torture will continue as long as someone THINKS it is effective.

And who decides on guilt - secret military tribunals who examine classified evidence that even the accuted can't look at?

We know that the Americans never get their intelligence wrong don't we?

They say that power tends to corrupt ...

The problem I have with Guano Bay is this. America agents have been told that they can arrest and torture people if they consider them a security threat. There is no independent watchdog. There is no independent defence council. There are no jurers. There is no comeback if they make a mistake.

If they find someone is Al Qaida, they get a big pat on the back. If they torture and/or kill an innocent, there is no retribution. So they might as well torture and/or kill as many people as they can, in the hope that 1 in 10 will be a genuine terrorist, and hence they will get lots of pats on the back.

Fungus

[vista]

I don't mind genocide so long as its applied exclusively to people who advocate it. In your case I'd agree to some torture first.

Dead or should be dead people just don't count.

[vista]

Although torture might get some information out, much of the information is unreliable, as victims tend to say what the torturer wants to hear. .

If this were true torture would have died out years ago, its simple, if something works it continues if it doesn't it dies out/stops the rest is subjective b0ll0cks!

[Gunnery Sergeant Highway]

Are you okay with westerners beheaded on camera?

War is hell, man, war is hell.

[AtW]

Seems fair to me. After all, they're the bad guys.

Are you okay with westerners beheaded on camera?

[Gunnery Sergeant Highway]

And who decides on guilt - secret military tribunals who examine classified evidence that even the accuted can't look at?

Seems fair to me. After all, they're the bad guys.

[AtW]

If someone is guilty of premeditated murder, then I couldn't care less if he is tortured and then killed.

And who decides on guilt - secret military tribunals who examine classified evidence that even the accuted can't look at?

[Spartacus]

Bin Laden survives because western society won't do whats required, we are constrained by weak willed left-wing pieces of sh1te - wipe out all muslim life then terrorism wouldn't be a problem but we can't do that can we? - genocide the only way to be completely safe.

Vista is Chico and I claim my thirty pieces of silver.

[Fungus]

Because some scumbags love to inflice pain on defenceless people.

Although torture might get some information out, much of the information is unreliable, as victims tend to say what the torturer wants to hear. And then there is the question of the reliability of the evidence against the person. Several Israeli agents were imprisoned in Norway for murdering an innocent man who was supposedly a terrorist. That is one of the few cases where a Mossad agent was caught. I wonder how many more innocents were murdered? That's why I am with few exceptions opposed to torture and killing without trial. The Israelis seemed to have had more success by bribing Palestinians, rather than torturing them. One PLO representative was maimed by a bomb that had been examined and marked "safe" by his office because most of the office staff were on the Israeli payroll. Similarly the British secret services destroyed the IRA not with torture or murder, but by infiltrating the organisation. If someone is guilty of premeditated murder, then I couldn't care less if he is tortured and then killed.

The real problem is that the Western intelligence agencies and governments missed the boat with Al-Qaida and then overreacted in a knee jerk reaction to make it look like they were doing something and cover up their tulip poor intelligence prior to 9/11.

However, were someone to take the current cabinet to a secret location, and then strap each one down, I would be more than happily do my best to improve my torture skills. I am confident that I could develop some very creative and effective new methods. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[AtW]

wipe out all muslim life then terrorism wouldn't be a problem but we can't do that can we? - genocide the only way to be completely safe.

I don't mind genocide so long as its applied exclusively to people who advocate it. In your case I'd agree to some torture first.

[vista]

Ok, so lets change laws to allow torture - but this is already happening, the only thing you would achieve is some savings on having to fly POWs around the world - but what about results? 5 (!) years on and Bin Laden is still not found!

Bin Laden survives because western society won't do whats required, we are constrained by weak willed left-wing pieces of sh1te - wipe out all muslim life then terrorism wouldn't be a problem but we can't do that can we? - genocide the only way to be completely safe.

[AtW]

if torture was unreliable then why has it survived for thousands of years?

Because some scumbags love to inflice pain on defenceless people.

[vista]

torture

Its funny how the left-wing scum-sucking-vile-pieces-of-tulipe always use the same boring flawed mantra "torture is not reliable" hor$esh!t" when lots of torture goes on, now if torture was unreliable then why has it survived for thousands of years? Could it be because it does work and is more reliable than the evil-scum-sucking-left-wing-baby-murdering-kiddie-fiddlers would have us believe? and the only reason they object is that they don't have the stones to do whats required and would rather 1,000 innocents die to ptrotect their black-as-coal-souls than they be responsible for a single death?

[AtW]

Or perhaps changed, given the extraordinary situation we find ourselves in these days with regards to terrorism.

Ok, so lets change laws to allow torture - but this is already happening, the only thing you would achieve is some savings on having to fly POWs around the world - but what about results? 5 (!) years on and Bin Laden is still not found!

[Mailman]

Clearly. It's sad that the government of the US seem to see US consitutional protections more as troublesome restrictions than as a guide to how government should work. Evidence that the constituional limits are needed.

Or perhaps changed, given the extraordinary situation we find ourselves in these days with regards to terrorism.

Mailman