Reply to: Mrs T

[minestrone]

The debates on Thatcher always remind me that the average person in this country wants more than they give and gets angry when they cannot achieve that state.

[DodgyAgent]

Has it occurred to you that all those goodies are imported these days, even the shoes, along with most other things including oil and gas.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think everything is fine and dandy when the national debt is increasing by several thousand pounds a second, and a balance of payment deficit of over £30 billion over the last year (and not currently improving).

He should stop spending so much time with recruitment agents

[DodgyAgent]

These are clearly your heartfelt views, but they seriously come across as paranoid ranting. Where is this destruction of wealth of which you speak? I live in Manchester and work in London and travel down on the train every week and all around me I see wealth, comfort, people working, people shopping, people traveling, well-dressed people with mobile phones and laptops and mp3 players and shiny new shoes. I don't just mean on the train, I mean all around, in towns, in cities, everywhere, society is bustling and busy, spending money, making money.

Thanks to Thatcherism

Obviously there are communities where unemployment and state benefits are a way of life, and we all know that those places need to be worked on more and more, but those places are the exception.

Thanks to socialism
And claiming that health and welfare have not improved with all that investment is astonishing. They are massively improved. As are public transport and education facilities (the education standards are open to debate - I don't think they have fallen, but I think so many university places are available now that they have to be filled by people who would never have been accepted in the past, which ends up looking like a drop in standards, which depends on how you look at it really).

I know I always come across as a Labour fan-boy on this site, but anyone leaning slightly to the left of a fascist dictatorship does, let's face it. I'm just trying to point out that this depressing portrayal of our country by the media and the old-school Thatcher lovers like yourself is absurdly false. you are rich because of her

And the state hasn't interfered directly in my life, or that of anyone I know.(so what about the poor sods who have?) I don't feel any less free now than I ever did. Can't smoke in public places, I suppose, but that's common sense these days and applies in many free countries. I dread the return of the Tories. It may take them a few years to destroy our public services again, on the pretext of "saving this country from Gordon Brown's debt economy" or whatever bollo they come out with, but destroy them they will, probably just in time for my aging parents to finally need to use the health service which they spent years and years contributing to.

In other words you are an affluent well educated beneficiary of Thatcherism who has not had to suffer the indignity of the poor sods that have been failed by socialism.

You seem to be one of these champagne socialists who patronises the evil institutions of socialism (I bet you wouldnt send your kids to a grotty inner city state school) because your twisted guilt ridden mind cannot face up to the privilige you have enjoyed. You have embraced and exploited capitalism and Thatcherism and yet you "support" institutions that have failed so many people.

If we are to move on the debate needs to discuss how public services can apply the efficient dynamics of capitalism without the obsession for screwing profit. You are clearly too proud of your "I am a socialist badge" to see beyond yourself.

[TimberWolf]

Has it occurred to you that all those goodies are imported these days, even the shoes, along with most other things including oil and gas.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think everything is fine and dandy when the national debt is increasing by several thousand pounds a second, and a balance of payment deficit of over £30 billion over the last year (and not currently improving).

1/2 £billion per day increase in borrowing is a nice easy and frighteningly large number to remember (or try to forget).

[Doggy Styles]

A large chunk of the "wealth" we see today is borrowed.

Now the nation is borrowing over £100 billion more each year just to stand still!

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[OwlHoot]

I live in Manchester and work in London and travel down on the train every week and all around me I see wealth, comfort, people working, people shopping, people traveling, well-dressed people with mobile phones and laptops and mp3 players and shiny new shoes.
...

Has it occurred to you that all those goodies are imported these days, even the shoes, along with most other things including oil and gas.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think everything is fine and dandy when the national debt is increasing by several thousand pounds a second, and a balance of payment deficit of over £30 billion over the last year (and not currently improving).

[Gonzo]

I see wealth, comfort, people working, people shopping, people traveling, well-dressed people with mobile phones and laptops and mp3 players and shiny new shoes.

I think you may be mixing up wealth with the benefits of globalisation.

When I was a lad, items like TV sets and VCRs (made in Britain then) were expensive, more than one month's salary.

In those days, lots of people had to lease them for smaller weekly payments rather than buy them. Does anyone do that any more? Are Radio Rentals still going?

So I think it is the case that the toys are cheaper, not that the people are richer.

[stek]

She took away our school milk

[Gonzo]

Her name does stir up a lot of strong emotions even to this day doesn't it.

The reason for it is the amount of pain that the country went through in the early eighties to get itself into an economically strong position.

What is really depressing is that the country is now going to have to go through that all again. It will not be pretty.

[dang65]

Her legacy however has been squandered with the state and its evil institutions meddling more and more into the lives of everyone and emaciating the wealth creating economy. The government has allowed the city of London to implode on its own greed, encouraged foreign ownership of vital infrastructure (EDF running our power supplies), and turned a blind eye to outright abuse of the intra company transfer system. It has squandered vast amounts of money on public services and welfare for no real gain in performance and it has indulged itself in wars without popular support.

This is not the legacy that Thatcherism deserved to leave.

These are clearly your heartfelt views, but they seriously come across as paranoid ranting. Where is this destruction of wealth of which you speak? I live in Manchester and work in London and travel down on the train every week and all around me I see wealth, comfort, people working, people shopping, people traveling, well-dressed people with mobile phones and laptops and mp3 players and shiny new shoes. I don't just mean on the train, I mean all around, in towns, in cities, everywhere, society is bustling and busy, spending money, making money.

Obviously there are communities where unemployment and state benefits are a way of life, and we all know that those places need to be worked on more and more, but those places are the exception.

And claiming that health and welfare have not improved with all that investment is astonishing. They are massively improved. As are public transport and education facilities (the education standards are open to debate - I don't think they have fallen, but I think so many university places are available now that they have to be filled by people who would never have been accepted in the past, which ends up looking like a drop in standards, which depends on how you look at it really).

I know I always come across as a Labour fan-boy on this site, but anyone leaning slightly to the left of a fascist dictatorship does, let's face it. I'm just trying to point out that this depressing portrayal of our country by the media and the old-school Thatcher lovers like yourself is absurdly false.

And the state hasn't interfered directly in my life, or that of anyone I know. I don't feel any less free now than I ever did. Can't smoke in public places, I suppose, but that's common sense these days and applies in many free countries. I dread the return of the Tories. It may take them a few years to destroy our public services again, on the pretext of "saving this country from Gordon Brown's debt economy" or whatever bollo they come out with, but destroy them they will, probably just in time for my aging parents to finally need to use the health service which they spent years and years contributing to.

[DodgyAgent]

You wouldn't want me to lie about my experience, would you?

depends on whether your Cv matches the job

[expat]

I cant believe that you are owning up to it.

You wouldn't want me to lie about my experience, would you?

[DodgyAgent]

Really? I was contracting before she was elected.

I cant believe that you are owning up to it.

Anyway france has contractors as do the Netherlands and Poland etc, but they are small fry compared to the contractor industry in the UK. Labour would never have allowed individuals to work as one man limited companies. Since labour came to power they have done their utmost to kill it.

[expat]

Without her ... we would not have had a "contractor Industry".

Really? I was contracting before she was elected.

[DodgyAgent]

The Golden Age that the Thatcherites remember is the bit between when she was still busy "cleaning up the mess left by Labour" and when she was under attack from traitors on her own side. Trouble is, there was no such time.

And how sad would it be to be able to be called after a person who is no longer leading. Thatcherite makes me think of Gaullist or Peronist: the original is gone but let's keep plugging the brand as long as it sells, because we have no new ideas of our own.

I quite agree. She left a legacy of free market capitalism that she wrested from the Unions and the nationalised industrys. The entire country suffered great pain in enabling this transition in a similar way to how countries like Poland have weaned themselves off communism.

Without her the economy would have gone bust and society would have retreated into a communist, state run behemoth of misery.. And we would not have had a "contractor Industry"

Her legacy however has been squandered with the state and its evil institutions meddling more and more into the lives of everyone and emaciating the wealth creating economy. The government has allowed the city of London to implode on its own greed, encouraged foreign ownership of vital infrastructure (EDF running our power supplies), and turned a blind eye to outright abuse of the intra company transfer system. It has squandered vast amounts of money on public services and welfare for no real gain in performance and it has indulged itself in wars without popular support.

This is not the legacy that Thatcherism deserved to leave.