Reply to: One for Churchill

[Churchill]

<note to self - bump this thread Friday afternoon while Churchy is on the road and CM is browsing CUK waiting for him to get home>

<note to self> Do Co-operative run a funeral service in Saudi?

[Drewster]

Yup, she'll have forgotten my bravery/stupidity by Friday...

<note to self - bump this thread Friday afternoon while Churchy is on the road and CM is browsing CUK waiting for him to get home>

[The Wikir Man]

But girls, it was only a few years back that most women pledged their obediance upon marriage.

Oh those halycon days..........

When I got married, the registrar told us that we could choose our own vows. I said "as long as she says 'love, honour and obey', I'm not fussed".

Neither she nor my fiancee found it as amusing as I did.

[Churchill]

Churchill,

You're working away, right?

Yup, she'll have forgotten my bravery/stupidity by Friday...

[Gibbon]

Churchill,

You're working away, right?

[Churchill]

..... are long gone

You reckon?

[cailin maith]

But girls, it was only a few years back that most women pledged their obediance upon marriage.

Oh those halycon days..........

..... are long gone

[Gibbon]

But girls, it was only a few years back that most women pledged their obediance upon marriage.

Oh those halycon days..........

[Halo Jones]

Well, he was a man so you have to take most things he said with a pinch of salt (and a large tequila!!)

WSS +1

[cailin maith]

TL,

Thanks for the quote, I only saw it by accident whilst researching Aristotle V Epicurus on leisure. Just wondered if CM would feel as warmly about him given this quote.
I agree with you about Aristotle though just a shame he was so well thought of by the early church fathers.

Well, he was a man so you have to take most things he said with a pinch of salt (and a large tequila!!)

[Gibbon]

TL,

Thanks for the quote, I only saw it by accident whilst researching Aristotle V Epicurus on leisure. Just wondered if CM would feel as warmly about him given this quote.

I agree with you about Aristotle though just a shame he was so well thought of by the early church fathers.

[cailin maith]

As your better half seems to like Socrates maybe you try this premise on her:

Socrates maintained that the courage of a man was shown in commanding, while that of a woman was shown in obeying.

Would be obliged for research purposes if you could report back on the success putting this premise into action.

[thunderlizard]

cheers Gibbon.

καὶ οὐχ ἡ αὐτὴ σωφροσύνη γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνδρός, οὐδ᾽ ἀνδρεία καὶ δικαιοσύνη, καθάπερ ᾤετο Σωκράτης, ἀλλ᾽ ἡ μὲν ἀρχικὴ ἀνδρεία ἡ δ᾽ ὑπηρετική, ὁμοίως δ᾽ ἔχει καὶ περὶ τὰς ἄλλας.

"and composure is not the same for a woman and a man, nor bravery or justice as Socrates thought, but bravery is ruling for one, and obeying for the other, like it is with other virtues"
which I take to mean Socrates thought they were the same, and Aristotle thinks they're different.
(with the added oddity that bravery is literally "maleness", so ἀνδρός / ἀνδρεία, so if you try and force that concept on a woman you're bound to run into problems).

I'm sure Socrates could have put him to rights there, as he's talking fundamentally. E.g. it might work out in life that bravery for a man is ordering his wife to hit him with a frying pan; and bravery for a woman is in obeying her husband when told to stand still while he hits her with a frying pan; but at bottom it's still a question of whether you can take a Le Creuset over the head).

Never was a fan of Aristotle. A very good biologist with ideas above his station if you ask me.

[Gibbon]

I never ever quote from wiki, well not since I got marked down in an OU assignment. Cost me a distinction

[thunderlizard]

That's a bit more plausible. The mighty wikipedia agrees with you, but it is still strange that their citation for that is not Aristotle but somebody called Cynthia Freeland.