Reply to: Irish public sector take 13% pay cut

[Churchill]

The two junior A&E doctors on, of which at least one if not all will be foreign, are busy treating other patients, writing up paperwork or trying to get a more specialist doctor down to come and see a patient.

Most of the jurnior doctors that you see on A&E don't actually work in A&E full time. They are bleeped from their wards when required.

If a more senior doctor is required and it's a night or weekend then they are rang up at home.

Everything depends on the speciality the doctor is in, and the type of hospital whose A&E you are in.



You mean going back to the situation where nurses actually manage the departments and wards, rather than full time managers with no medical experience? Or do you mean there should be no-one managing anything?

Bring back Matron!!!

[Mich the Tester]

You mean going back to the situation where nurses actually manage the departments and wards, rather than full time managers with no medical experience?

Madness, it would never work! Just imagine, there'd be less scares about hygiene, so no work for specialist cleaning firms, there'd be less skin infections so less money for pharma salesmen, patients cheerfully going home after a short stay instead of taking up a bed and generating income.

You don't understand it do you? It's not about curing people you fool, it's about making money out of keeping them ill.

[SueEllen]

Nurses do most of the work these days in the hospitals. Under New Labour it seems doctors are just sitting on their arses all day while nurses work their butt off. Numerous time I have been to A&E I havent seen a doc, it's always been a nurse.

The two junior A&E doctors on, of which at least one if not all will be foreign, are busy treating other patients, writing up paperwork or trying to get a more specialist doctor down to come and see a patient.

Most of the jurnior doctors that you see on A&E don't actually work in A&E full time. They are bleeped from their wards when required.

If a more senior doctor is required and it's a night or weekend then they are rang up at home.

Everything depends on the speciality the doctor is in, and the type of hospital whose A&E you are in.

When New Labour announce that they are investing billions into NHS, all of it goes into hiring managers to issue more and more regulations. When there is a cost cutting exercise these managers have the audacity to go and fire the nurses.

IMO, all the managers should be sacked in the NHS and the billions should be invested in hiring nurses and buying state of the art equipment.

You mean going back to the situation where nurses actually manage the departments and wards, rather than full time managers with no medical experience? Or do you mean there should be no-one managing anything?

[Mich the Tester]

if the public sector is > than the private sector the difference is borrowing.
Hence the tulip hole we're in now.
HTH

It’s back to Margaret Thatcher’s statement that ‘socialist governments always run out of other people’s money’.

[sasguru]

How is that arithmetically possible? The public sector is, as people frequently complain, subsidised by the private sector; it can not logically be otherwise, there is no sense in pretending so. Surely then, the extreme theoretical high value comes if the private sector earns £X and pays 100% of that to run the public sector. That would be a £X private sector and a £X public sector: i.e. the public sector can not "swallow" more than 50% of GDP.

if the public sector is > than the private sector the difference is borrowing.
Hence the tulip hole we're in now.
HTH

[fullyautomatix]

Nurses do most of the work these days in the hospitals. Under New Labour it seems doctors are just sitting on their arses all day while nurses work their butt off. Numerous time I have been to A&E I havent seen a doc, it's always been a nurse.

When New Labour announce that they are investing billions into NHS, all of it goes into hiring managers to issue more and more regulations. When there is a cost cutting exercise these managers have the audacity to go and fire the nurses.

IMO, all the managers should be sacked in the NHS and the billions should be invested in hiring nurses and buying state of the art equipment.

[Mich the Tester]

Thats exactly what my mam is - actually she's just finished her masters, it was handed in before Christmas - she's waiting to see if she passed ok at the moment.

I've had a look through her books and essays. **** me, that's not simple stuff.

How the same qualification level can exist for 'meejah studies' and this just defeats me. Unless of course meejah studies students have to seek out the latest research on neuropsychology and dementia, then explain how it pertains to caring for psychiatric patients in the different stages of some specific form of dementia.

[cailin maith]

Lady Tester is head of nursing for a group of care homes. She has a degree in psychiatric nursing, extension qualifications (OK, Dutch qualification structure is different) for psycho-geriatric care and care management and is now studying for MSc in psycho-geriatry. Be glad that there are such highly qualified people to make your life and the life of your family bearable when you start losing your faculties.

Yes, there are thick nurses; they are generally employed to serve tea and wipe people's arses as in modern medicine there aren’t many nursing tasks that can be carried out by thickos any more.

Thats exactly what my mam is - actually she's just finished her masters, it was handed in before Christmas - she's waiting to see if she passed ok at the moment.

[SueEllen]

Yes, there are thick nurses; they are generally employed to serve tea and wipe people's arses as in modern medicine there aren’t many nursing tasks that can be carried out by thickos any more.

They are auxiliaries.

Though even then they aren't all thick as some of them are fully trained foreign nurses, others are people starting off in the profession and others are just people doing it for the money.

Well the one who took my blood at the doctor's surgery can't be doing it for anything else as to take blood samples of people every day in a small room is boring. Least if you work for the blood transfusion service you have lots of banter with colleagues and patients while they are giving their pints of blood.

[SueEllen]

I always remember a call into 5live during the last round of teachers moaning about not enough pay. Chap phoned in and said, 'let's be honest I get over a grand a week for the time I am there, pension is sorted and the holidays are awesome, once you get your lesson plans sorted you can recycle at will plus chances are you can move into a management role after a few years anyway'.

Which is why all the teachers I know who stay in the profession choose to work either at crap schools or in the private sector.

Apparently it's boring working in at a school in a middle class area as there are no problems and all the school head, governors and parents are interested in school league tables. Plus some of the kids and parents are up their own arses.

[Mich the Tester]

WSS

My mother is a nurse as are quite a few of my friends and I have to say, I take offence to the comment that they are "all ******* thick". Like every profession there are always a few bad apples but overall they do a job I couldn't and wouldn't want to do.

Lady Tester is head of nursing for a group of care homes. She has a degree in psychiatric nursing, extension qualifications (OK, Dutch qualification structure is different) for psycho-geriatric care and care management and is now studying for MSc in psycho-geriatry. Be glad that there are such highly qualified people to make your life and the life of your family bearable when you start losing your faculties.

Yes, there are thick nurses; they are generally employed to serve tea and wipe people's arses as in modern medicine there aren’t many nursing tasks that can be carried out by thickos any more.

[lukemg]

I always remember a call into 5live during the last round of teachers moaning about not enough pay. Chap phoned in and said, 'let's be honest I get over a grand a week for the time I am there, pension is sorted and the holidays are awesome, once you get your lesson plans sorted you can recycle at will plus chances are you can move into a management role after a few years anyway'.
Good luck to them I say but spare me the hard luck stories.
Nursing is a different game, especially these days the level of qualification needed is impressive, the really basic work now is done by nursing auxillaries, cleaners etc who get paid less + don't forget the shift requirements !

[cailin maith]

Some are and then some know more than the overpaid doctors who are a waste of time.

WSS

My mother is a nurse as are quite a few of my friends and I have to say, I take offence to the comment that they are "all ******* thick". Like every profession there are always a few bad apples but overall they do a job I couldn't and wouldn't want to do.

[Gonzo]

That would be a £X private sector and a £X public sector: i.e. the public sector can not "swallow" more than 50% of GDP.

I am not convinced that your maths is quite correct on that but I am not sure that I can explain why.

Anyway, I think that theoretically it would be possible for the public sector to consume more than 100% of GDP. You would need near 100% tax rates and probably suicidal government borrowing but I think it would be possible.

[expat]

Quote:
Whilst Alistair Darling puts the final touches to his budget speech, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) comes out with figures that show that the UK public sector now swallows up 52% of GDP.

Says it all really...

How is that arithmetically possible? The public sector is, as people frequently complain, subsidised by the private sector; it can not logically be otherwise, there is no sense in pretending so. Surely then, the extreme theoretical high value comes if the private sector earns £X and pays 100% of that to run the public sector. That would be a £X private sector and a £X public sector: i.e. the public sector can not "swallow" more than 50% of GDP.