Reply to: Charles Kennedy statement @ 17:45

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy, your analogy with EDS is flawed. EDS would fail sober and could only improve by having a few to many.

Most of our famous and effective leaders from yesterday had vices that would not be tolerated now. Churchill - drink, Lloyd-George - serial womaniser and drinker, Disraeli was caught sh*gging a maid on a billard table between cabinet sessions. Need I even mention the hallowed JFK.

It puzzles me that as we as a society move further away from religious morales we now expect our leaders to live like Franciscan monks. Let him without sin cast the first stone etc. No-one is perfect and to expect our leaders to so is why many able people will not venture into politics and we end up with teacher's pet leaders.

That is true. Politicians nowdays are very quick to grab the moral highgound over sleaze or "fat cats", privilege (Brown/Prescott sneering at Eton), the fact that they themselves come from poor backgrounds. They are only too ready to jump on each other over weaknesses. They also preside over a state that asks for more and more tax to overcome todays social problems and they are quick to interfere in everyone elses lives.

Of course this behaviour means to avoid charges of hypocrisy they have painted themselves into a corner that is entirely of their own making.

[Gibbon]

Dodgy, your analogy with EDS is flawed. EDS would fail sober and could only improve by having a few to many.

Most of our famous and effective leaders from yesterday had vices that would not be tolerated now. Churchill - drink, Lloyd-George - serial womaniser and drinker, Disraeli was caught sh*gging a maid on a billard table between cabinet sessions. Need I even mention the hallowed JFK.

It puzzles me that as we as a society move further away from religious morales we now expect our leaders to live like Franciscan monks. Let him without sin cast the first stone etc. No-one is perfect and to expect our leaders to so is why many able people will not venture into politics and we end up with teacher's pet leaders.

[Phoenix]

WTF?....Churchill......Great statesman...also a major P*ss head.......Who cares?

[DodgyAgent]

The problem with Kennedy

Can't see what the problem with Kennedy having a few drinks. Churchill won the waking up to a tumbler of sherry and remember all those grandiose speeches.

If an IT contractor has a drink problem and it does not affect his work then there is no "problem" unless the law is being broken. Just remember these politicians seek power to spend 50% of our hard earned money that is forced from us. They partly "sell" themselves as being part of a moral crusade to rid society of many of its problems most of which centre around health care.

These people are hung by their own petard because they impose upon us a nanny state who take it upon themselves to tell us how we should behave ourselves. How therefore could we have a government that is led by an alcoholic that is at the same has set itself up to deal with many of societies (many of which are alcohol related) social problems.

Its a bit like having EDS coming along and offering you an all singing and dancing computer system, built by their own experts, suddenly to find that their developers turn up a week late because their internal microsoft outlook diary has crashed and not worked for a month. The difference with EDS however is that the customer has the power to choose to go elsewhere.

[Gibbon]

Can't see what the problem with Kennedy having a few drinks. Churchill won the waking up to a tumbler of sherry and remember all those grandiose speeches.

My theory on 24 hr drinking is that NL want all the tax and make sure you die early to save them the pension money. Yeah they take a hit on some relatively short term hospital treatment but there will be no livers suitable to save you.

Woe betide you however if you don't spend your overtaxed income on liver rot and improve your stately pile instead. This is not fair, as they don't get as much tax from the Vat etc as alcohol and you may live long enough to claim that pension you've paid into. To discourage you from such folly they will in future tax you on any improvements you make so hopefully making you give up on it and spend your money at the pub/off licence.

[jason986]

And look at the results


When I was young you did all your drinking in the pub, and there was a measure of social control there: Go home; you've had enough".

What does the panel think?

Bloody hell, you were lucky, where I was brought up you had to be 18 to get into the pub. We had to make do with hastily arranged party's when the parents were awol.

[Lucifer Box]

You might very well be right, Wendi, but that's not what doom-mongers like the Daily Mail were saying.

[wendigo100]

Most Wetherspoons are now open every day until either 24:00 or 01:00. As I said, the predictions that the changes in the licensing laws would bring about the end of the world would appear to have been incorrect.

Not necessarily. Isn't this one of those issues that would take time to develop? I'm not sure people expected an overnight increase in problems.

This came to mind when I heard today about the Dutch experience with cannabis. They have just found out that they have had an upsurge in all drug usage, especially hard drugs, since the relaxing of their cannabis laws, which they blame. Not the same thing as pubs of course, but it just demonstrates that the effects of an action are not always felt immediately.

There might be a noticeable increase in late-night pub "revellers" come the warmer weather. And come the long, light evenings they have in Kennedy's constituency.

[mcquiggd]

Pop up to Edinburgh.... many places are open until 1am, a large number until 3am.... Darios is open until 4am... The Old Salt *opens* at 5am, other places at 6am.... casinos and hotels are open as long as you spend a lot of cash....

And, Scots rate of cirrhosis is increasing, while in the rest of Europe its falling....

[Lucifer Box]

Lucifer I think you will find that very few pubs have taken this up and that most of the booze is being sold by supermarkets.

Most Wetherspoons are now open every day until either 24:00 or 01:00. As I said, the predictions that the changes in the licensing laws would bring about the end of the world would appear to have been incorrect.

[mcquiggd]

And thats just my own personal contribution to the economy....

[Fungus]

And look at the results

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581530.stm

"Excessive alcohol consumption is being blamed for a big rise in deaths from the liver disease cirrhosis in Britain."

When I was young you did all your drinking in the pub, and there was a measure of social control there: Go home; you've had enough".

Buying in supermarkets implies drinking at home, where you don't have anyone there to notice you are hitting the bottle too hard.

What does the panel think?

Apparently the increase in alcohol consumption is accounted for by wine, with beer and spirits remaining stable. We now drink more per capita than the French would you believe.

Fungus

[Sysman]

Lucifer I think you will find that very few pubs have taken this up and that most of the booze is being sold by supermarkets.

And look at the results

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581530.stm

"Excessive alcohol consumption is being blamed for a big rise in deaths from the liver disease cirrhosis in Britain."

When I was young you did all your drinking in the pub, and there was a measure of social control there: Go home; you've had enough".

Buying in supermarkets implies drinking at home, where you don't have anyone there to notice you are hitting the bottle too hard.

What does the panel think?

[DodgyAgent]

Funnily enough, despite all the predictions by the Daily Mail and others that the country was going to swept away on a tidal wave of vomit and alcohol fuelled crime, things seem much the same as they were before.

I'm sure all those who predicted the end of world will be eating their words in public. Not.

Lucifer I think you will find that very few pubs have taken this up and that most of the booze is being sold by supermarkets.

[Lucifer Box]

And I bet he was one of those who came out against the licensing laws being changed.

Funnily enough, despite all the predictions by the Daily Mail and others that the country was going to swept away on a tidal wave of vomit and alcohol fuelled crime, things seem much the same as they were before.

I'm sure all those who predicted the end of world will be eating their words in public. Not.