Reply to: Merkel calls for end to speculators who bet against Greece

[minestrone]

“This is what the politicians have to fight for. It is what the Greek Prime Minister wants, it is the will of the German Chancellor.”

That is why we stopped them making nukes when we wrote their constitution.

Leave running Europe to us dear, the last time you made an arse of it.

[AtW]

don't put you CV on the web, it shows you have worked in a shoddy line of minor companies and you are obviously not deemed capable of making decisions for major financials as you like to think you are capable of.

[minestrone]

Incorrect analogy, not that I expect you to understand it.

If people walked into local betting shop and bet on Greece to go bust then it's fine.

However when people "bet" by buying highly leveraged CDS crap they actually affect the market.

It is a perfectly valid analogy, Greece is a tulip hole becasue it creates no worth, same as SKA produces no worth.

Greece were not concerned when they were considered high value, I did not see them running to the press to complain.

And if you are going to start the "not that I expect you to understand it" comments then don't put you CV on the web, it shows you have worked in a shoddy line of minor companies and you are obviously not deemed capable of making decisions for major financials as you like to think you are capable of.

[AtW]

Sooooooooooo, if 'hedging' is OK - who is going to take the other side?

Central Banks can do it if they are interested.

If nobody is interested then hedging won't be possible, fine by me - this will make case for single currency better: in eurozone members don't need to hedge against each other.

[HairyArsedBloke]

You are not trading, you are gambling.

If you were a proper company that was trading properly with Europe or USA then it would be entirely reasonable for your company to hedge against currency movements via your bank. Note word hedge - not speculate to make profits, but protect your margins from currency fluctuations, that's when futures are a legitimate tool.

Retail customers should not be involved in it - if you go to USA next year and afraid GBP can drop further than hedge yourself by making long term decision to buy USD right now in retail outlet on your high street.

The way I see it is that when retail punters like yourself get sucked into these games it is a sure sign that the end is nigh.

Ah, futures, that's my cue.

Sooooooooooo, if 'hedging' is OK - who is going to take the other side? Other hedgers with opposite requirements are not sufficient as there is always going to be a mismatch in the volume and time of the hedging requirement. This will result in vastly greater price volatility. The speculators are a vital component in ALL markets.

Believe me AtW, I know what I am talking about here!

As much as you want to blame the current euro fun and games on speculative activity, the truth is that there is not enough of them to do it. Governments have massive resources to manipulate markets and they know from bitter experience that they cannot make the market go in any other direction that what it wants to.

[AtW]

The end of what is nigh?

The end of current system that you deem as "normal".

[Jog On]

You are not trading, you are gambling.

If you were a proper company that was trading properly with Europe or USA then it would be entirely reasonable for your company to hedge against currency movements via your bank. Note word hedge - not speculate to make profits, but protect your margins from currency fluctuations, that's when futures are a legitimate tool.

Technically these are all the same thing. And anyone who wants to can now do it. Just like anyone who wants to can 'invest for the long term' (which is OK with you) a lot more accessibly where they couldn't before. Some might call that gambling..

The way I see it is that when retail punters like yourself get sucked into these games it is a sure sign that the end is nigh.

The end of what is nigh?

[AtW]

Alexi, if myself and another poster on this forum waged a bet that SKA was going to come of nothing do you think that would make a difference to SKA?

Incorrect analogy, not that I expect you to understand it.

If people walked into local betting shop and bet on Greece to go bust then it's fine.

However when people "bet" by buying highly leveraged CDS crap they actually affect the market.

[AtW]

What's wrong with retail trading?

You are not trading, you are gambling.

If you were a proper company that was trading properly with Europe or USA then it would be entirely reasonable for your company to hedge against currency movements via your bank. Note word hedge - not speculate to make profits, but protect your margins from currency fluctuations, that's when futures are a legitimate tool.

Retail customers should not be involved in it - if you go to USA next year and afraid GBP can drop further than hedge yourself by making long term decision to buy USD right now in retail outlet on your high street.

The way I see it is that when retail punters like yourself get sucked into these games it is a sure sign that the end is nigh.

[Jog On]

I can see people on this board engaging in small scale speculation. It's a clear sign that things soon will change - when boy that shines boots on Wall Street starts taking part in these games, then the end is near - pyramid expanded far emough and would collapse imminently.

What's wrong with retail trading? 95% of retail traders lose money anyway, it's the institutional ones who make things happen - and they've been doing that for decades.

[minestrone]

Alexi, if myself and another poster on this forum waged a bet that SKA was going to come of nothing do you think that would make a difference to SKA?

[AtW]

If Greece (or anywhere else for that matter) ran their economy properly they wouldn't have to worry about speculators.

I reject this argument - whilst the Greek clearly did not run their economy well, just like the UK, speculators should have no right to make money from making their position even worse: if the house is burning people who predicted it will burn get no right to profit from it by looting it.

I can see people on this board engaging in small scale speculation. It's a clear sign that things soon will change - when boy that shines boots on Wall Street starts taking part in these games, then the end is near - pyramid expanded far emough and would collapse imminently.

[minestrone]

If what you say was true (and it isn't), then it would not be ironic because it would be direct consequence of upbringing. Say would you say it is "ironic" that someone born in far away tribe in Amazon does not speak French? What's so ironic about it? There is no scope for irony here.

Therefore, even if what you alleged was true, it would not be ironic.

But what's really ironic is that the product of Soviet system like myself gained better understanding of free market processes than someone who always lived in the West. It wasn't hard actually - free market is common sense really, and all that CDS, subprime,short bulltulip isn't.

Is there a word for sarcasm in the Russian language?

[OwlHoot]

Jesus, AtW you *care* so much about all this. But why bother? You may as well blame hyenas for stalking a limping buffalo - It's just the way things are, and by clobbering weak ailing animals the hyenas leave more resources for the healthy ones.

If Greece (or anywhere else for that matter) ran their economy properly they wouldn't have to worry about speculators. In fact speculators would be an asset to them instead of a well-deserved threat.

[AtW]

It really is ironic that you cannot understand the free market.

If what you say was true (and it isn't), then it would not be ironic because it would be direct consequence of upbringing. Say would you say it is "ironic" that someone born in far away tribe in Amazon does not speak French? What's so ironic about it? There is no scope for irony here.

Therefore, even if what you alleged was true, it would not be ironic.

But what's really ironic is that the product of Soviet system like myself gained better understanding of free market processes than someone who always lived in the West. It wasn't hard actually - free market is common sense really, and all that CDS, subprime,short bulltulip isn't.