Reply to: Blair's epitaph

[AlfredJPruffock]

Aye Fungus

Interesting that we only try to censor that which we do not agree with !

Anway I would venture that the Satanic Verses is one of the best books I have ever read, I only read it last month.

I was astonished that one of the lead characters should be an Archangel, and it is set in London, which has some ramifications for me thinking back to my odd encounter there back in 1996.

Its probably just me but the account of London disappearing during the end time in the Satanic Verses, somehow seems poignant, are we on the eve of destruction ?

Insure NOW with Prudential !

[Fungus]

If you dont like it ,you could always issue a Fatwa.

How about a low fatwa?

Fungus

[Fungus]

Why do you tree huggers always bleat on about the war? Time to change the record -if you want to bleat about something bleat about the Iranian President calling for Israel to be wiped off the map while at the same time developing nuclear weapons.

Even better, let's play both records.

Anyway, I don't envy the night watchman at the Iranian nuclear plant. The bagel munchers might soon be saying shalom to him in their own special way.

Fungus.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Alf this is rubbish. Can you stop posting extracts from this drivel. I can't believe we wasted millions protecting the author of this crap.

If you dont like it ,you could always issue a Fatwa.

[Mordac]

Alf this is rubbish. Can you stop posting extracts from this drivel. I can't believe we wasted millions protecting the author of this crap.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Mr John Maslam, owner of the Hot Wax nightclub, the record chain of the same name and of Fair Winds , the ledgendary store where you could get the finest brass horns.

Being a practical business man Mr Maslam had concealed from his employees his extracurricular work as the Chief Herald of the returned celestial being.

He issued press releases via a PR subsidary of the Valence Agency stating that

Our client is in a position to state that the the imminent Glory of the Coming of the Lord is at hand.

The Angel Azraeel is with us in the inner city of London, probably in Camden, Brickhall Tower Hamlets or Hackney and will reveal himself soon, perhaps within days or weeks.

All this was obscure to the three tall languid attendants in the Fair Winds store, which was why none of them could believe their eyes when they saw their hard nosed employer suddenly undergo a complete change of personality and rushed over to the wild unshaven stanger as if he was God Almighty, with his worn Armani suit and slicked down Robert De Niro hairstyle above proliferating eyebrows.

I will attend to this Gentleman myself he said pushing the other staff aside.

Anyway the stranger had this fat money belt and started dishing out these high denomination notes, pointed to a trumpet on the top shelf and said thats the one.

Now the truly amazing part, Mr Masala was up the ladder pronto, and refused payment !

The hard nosed Masala !!

Last of all the customer turns to the whole store and yells at the top of his voice

I am the Right Hand of God

Straight up, you wouldnt credit it ...Masala was right out of it and fell to his knees. then the stranger said

I name this trumpet Azraeel the Exterminator of men !

And we just stood there, I tell you, turned to stone, because all around this fücking insane certifiable bastards head was this bright glow, you know ?

Streaming out like a point behind his head.

A Halo.


Say what you like the shop assistants said afterwards, but we saw what we saw.

S Rushdie The Satanic Verses

[stackpole]

Blair and Bush obviously haven't got as much evidence about Iran as they did about Iraq!

That's because JK Rowling hasn't written it yet!

[wendigo100]

Why do you tree huggers always bleat on about the war? Time to change the record -if you want to bleat about something bleat about the Iranian President calling for Israel to be wiped off the map while at the same time developing nuclear weapons.

Blair and Bush obviously haven't got as much evidence about Iran as they did about Iraq!

[Chico]

Why do you tree huggers always bleat on about the war? Time to change the record -if you want to bleat about something bleat about the Iranian President calling for Israel to be wiped off the map while at the same time developing nuclear weapons.

[Not So Wise]

So it is all about numbers then Fungus? If Iraq was an unjustified war then so was the Balkans war

In no particular order for each

Iraq was about: Money (Oil and reconstruction contracts), Pride (Not finishing off SH was always a blot on Daddy Bush's presidency), political misdirection (They had not got Bin Ladin, had no clue where he was, but had to be seen to to be doing something) and lies.

Chances of wests objectives being reached by outside interfearance via arms, aka a free, democratic and most importantly, because this is the middle east after all, secular, westen style society? Very very slim. Best one can hope for now is another version of Iran

Yugoslav wars: Active and current genocides in progress (this decided which "side" the west would join, little more), fear of conflict spreading (While you might think they were far away from the UK they were not far...and these things do have a habit of speading in Europe, just look at WW1), Economic (refugees were flooding surounding countries and though Europe, thus putting pressure on them)

Chances of wests objectives being reached by outside interfearance via arms, aka break of the vicious circle of violence that had established itself there and a semi stable county inside the borders of continental Europe? Reasonable to good


The two "wars" are worlds apart

[AlfredJPruffock]

Of War and Peace the truth just twists
Its curfew gull just glides
Upon four-legged forest clouds
The cowboy angel rides
With his candle lit into the sun
Though its glow is waxed in black

All except when searching WMDs;
beneath the trees of Eden

The lamppost stands with folded arms
Its iron claws attached
The savage soldier sticks his head in sand
And then complains
All and all can only fall
With a crashing but meaningless blow

And there are no sins
behind the Gates of Eden


The foreign sun, it squints upon
Saddam and Bush and sons
As friends and other strangers
From their fates try to resign
Leaving men wholly, totally free
To do anything they wish to do but die

And there are no trials
beyond the Gates of Eden

At dawn my lover comes to me
And tells me of her dreams
With no attempts to shovel the glimpse
Into the ditch of what each one means

At times I think there are no words
But these to tell what we dare
And there will be no Tony Blair
inside the Gates of Eden

[BoredBloke]

"1) Gift aid, whereby a charity can claim back tax on donations.
2) Higher penalties for wildlife crimes, with the first jail sentences for stealing the eggs of endangered birds.
3) The national minimum wage. It does not seem to have damaged the economy.
4) Ceding control of interest rates to the Bank of England. It was a Tory idea, researched by the Tories, but implemented by New Lier.
5) Stopping massacres and genocide in Kosovo. Though the Yanks did the hard work, it was Blair that pushed them to go in. What, no oil? "

Not much in the whole scheme of things though. They have been in power since 1997, had a massive majority for most of that time and this is all they have achieved.

[DodgyAgent]

The attack on the Serbs was largely targeted at the government e.g. launching a cruise missile at a government building. They were the ones responsible for genocide. It was a fairly clear cut issue with few fatalities from US attacks.

But the Iraqi thing has been far more contentious. The intelligence has turned out to have been wrong. Iraq was not involved with Al-Qaida. Iraq was not a threat to us. In fact it was a basket case and could barely feed its population. Huge numbers of Iraqis have died as a result of the invasion. And the post-invasion reconstruction was not thought through. And it is acting as a focal point for Islamic fruit-cakes. I fear that Iraq will not become the democratic beacon hoped for by the US.

Dresden was and remains contentious. I guess Bomber Harris thought he knew what he was doing. But don't forget that at that time precision bombing did not exist. So the options were do not bomb industrial areas, or bomb industrial areas, and take out huge numbers of civilians. (Maybe you know a good link for this?) At that time it was commonplace to completely miss a target, or even bomb the wrong city.

Fungus.

So it is all about numbers then Fungus? If Iraq was an unjustified war then so was the Balkans war (too far away from Britain and the US etc etc) and the second world war had no justification because Hitler had wanted peace with the UK anyway.

[Fungus]

Some good points there fungus. I notice how quiet the anti wat brigade become when the US/UKs involvement in saving the lives of many muslims in the Balkans is mentioned. I cannot see myself now the bombing of Serbs is any different to the killing of Iraqis. Nor for that matter can I see how the bombing of serbs (to save "innocent" muslims) is any different to carpet bombing Dresden in WW2.

The attack on the Serbs was largely targeted at the government e.g. launching a cruise missile at a government building. They were the ones responsible for genocide. It was a fairly clear cut issue with few fatalities from US attacks.

But the Iraqi thing has been far more contentious. The intelligence has turned out to have been wrong. Iraq was not involved with Al-Qaida. Iraq was not a threat to us. In fact it was a basket case and could barely feed its population. Huge numbers of Iraqis have died as a result of the invasion. And the post-invasion reconstruction was not thought through. And it is acting as a focal point for Islamic fruit-cakes. I fear that Iraq will not become the democratic beacon hoped for by the US.

Dresden was and remains contentious. I guess Bomber Harris thought he knew what he was doing. But don't forget that at that time precision bombing did not exist. So the options were do not bomb industrial areas, or bomb industrial areas, and take out huge numbers of civilians. (Maybe you know a good link for this?) At that time it was commonplace to completely miss a target, or even bomb the wrong city.

Fungus.

[DodgyAgent]

I actually think he has achieved a few things.

1) Gift aid, whereby a charity can claim back tax on donations.
2) Higher penalties for wildlife crimes, with the first jail sentences for stealing the eggs of endangered birds.
3) The national minimum wage. It does not seem to have damaged the economy.
4) Ceding control of interest rates to the Bank of England. It was a Tory idea, researched by the Tories, but implemented by New Lier.
5) Stopping massacres and genocide in Kosovo. Though the Yanks did the hard work, it was Blair that pushed them to go in. What, no oil?

I'm not adding anything about the cancelling of debt etc in Africa as I'm not convinced that they addressed any of the real issues e.g. trade barriers.

I'm struggling to think of any other achievements. Pretty piss poor really.

Fungus

Some good points there fungus. I notice how quiet the anti wat brigade become when the US/UKs involvement in saving the lives of many muslims in the Balkans is mentioned. I cannot see myself now the bombing of Serbs is any different to the killing of Iraqis. Nor for that matter can I see how the bombing of serbs (to save "innocent" muslims) is any different to carpet bombing Dresden in WW2.