Reply to: Is a Project Manager a boss?

[Scary]

Wow. Lengthy. I have tried reading it and making sense of it and completely failed. For those of us who are weary and hungry could you provide an 'executive summary'?

Oooh, I speak executive. It's all about leveraging your resource advantage going forward.

[suityou01]

Intersting Question and I believe the answer lies in exactly what the strucutre of the organisation is.

Scenario 1
Lets take for example a project where the goal is to build a submarine. Now in this case the whole of the team is committed to one project and have no other work to do - this is their job. In this situation the PM is the boss because they work on a Project and they therefore work for the Project Manager.

I would however say that this type of Project would go beyond your average project manager ( me included) because there will be a huge amount of knowledge of sub building required - so in essence you would not expect to see your average Prince 2 PM running around here.


Scenario 2

The project is to implement a new application whcih affects the sales, service and accounts departments of an average SME. The PM in this case would use the resources of various people but it would be unlikely that any person on the project team would actually be working full time on the project (possible exception of the app developers who would more than likely be third party).

In this role the PM's job is to not just ensure that the app is devlievered on time and to the correct standard, but also to ensure that relevant staff are trained, any data migration issues are addressed, any reporting needs are fulfilled - it may even stretch into some HR areas if the system was going to replace jobs.

In this situation the PM is not your boss however he/she will agree workstreams with major stakeholders and the steering committee(of which one will probably be your boss) and those workstreams will be assigned to you. If you do not complete the workstream the PM may try to motivate/cajole/bully you into doing it but ultimately they will take it back to the steering committee if it is a major issue and then a chat with your boss may ensue (it may not because your boss thinks the project is tulip and a waste of time but then major stakeholder will be informed and your boss may have some chats with him/her!)

Scenario 3

You are asked to PM something which has no cross departmental functionality or impact - e.g. the whole of the project will affect one team only. In this scenario you have to be careful as this is actual what the boss of that department is paid for and the PM may have been bought in because said Boss is dragging his or her feet or is not engaged with the project. Which means you as PM will have hell because there is no support from the Boss - they may even not give you any resources and will block all attempts to get any.


There are probably others but as I say to the OP's question more info is needed.

Wow. Lengthy. I have tried reading it and making sense of it and completely failed. For those of us who are weary and hungry could you provide an 'executive summary'?

[original PM]

Thanks, PM that is a very good explanation.

Yes and probably an indication that I have too much time on my hands......

[Shimano105]

Thanks, PM that is a very good explanation.

[original PM]

Intersting Question and I believe the answer lies in exactly what the strucutre of the organisation is.

Scenario 1
Lets take for example a project where the goal is to build a submarine. Now in this case the whole of the team is committed to one project and have no other work to do - this is their job. In this situation the PM is the boss because they work on a Project and they therefore work for the Project Manager.

I would however say that this type of Project would go beyond your average project manager ( me included) because there will be a huge amount of knowledge of sub building required - so in essence you would not expect to see your average Prince 2 PM running around here.


Scenario 2

The project is to implement a new application whcih affects the sales, service and accounts departments of an average SME. The PM in this case would use the resources of various people but it would be unlikely that any person on the project team would actually be working full time on the project (possible exception of the app developers who would more than likely be third party).

In this role the PM's job is to not just ensure that the app is devlievered on time and to the correct standard, but also to ensure that relevant staff are trained, any data migration issues are addressed, any reporting needs are fulfilled - it may even stretch into some HR areas if the system was going to replace jobs.

In this situation the PM is not your boss however he/she will agree workstreams with major stakeholders and the steering committee(of which one will probably be your boss) and those workstreams will be assigned to you. If you do not complete the workstream the PM may try to motivate/cajole/bully you into doing it but ultimately they will take it back to the steering committee if it is a major issue and then a chat with your boss may ensue (it may not because your boss thinks the project is tulip and a waste of time but then major stakeholder will be informed and your boss may have some chats with him/her!)

Scenario 3

You are asked to PM something which has no cross departmental functionality or impact - e.g. the whole of the project will affect one team only. In this scenario you have to be careful as this is actual what the boss of that department is paid for and the PM may have been bought in because said Boss is dragging his or her feet or is not engaged with the project. Which means you as PM will have hell because there is no support from the Boss - they may even not give you any resources and will block all attempts to get any.


There are probably others but as I say to the OP's question more info is needed.

[Shimano105]

But you have missed the point - I wasn't moaning about where I work, just seeking clarification that a PM had some kind of say in things such as hours worked etc. Nothing other than that (ok, a little dig at the end but I'm sure PMs can take that!).

You have coloured it in, added some emotion and made a flippin argument out of it!

[suityou01]

Oh no I didn't. It's another silly thread about who is 'senior' to whom. We are supposed to be freelance professionals working within the same industry. None of us can really survive without the others. Granted not all projects or services require all job roles, but we all have our place in the grand scheme of things.

To look down upon those who cut code or deal with irate users is unprofessional behaviour. It creates the sort of environment where some people think they live in an ivory tower yet in reality the IT department is a disorganaized shambles that screws the rest of the organisation. I have seen that on enough sites that I'm sick of it.

Just do your job and try to do it well. When those around you are crap, help them be better. If they don't want to be better, do something about that.

But don't whinge just because you resent working in a matrix-managed environment where no bugger knows who is working for whom - that isjust how it is if you want to earn £00s per day for sitting on your arse in a heated office.

So don't moan about being given work to do like a civil servant does. If you don't like the situation: speak up and say so at ClientCo and recommend a better way of doing things.

Good to have you back.
Gig going well?

[stingman123]

Oh no I didn't. It's another silly thread about who is 'senior' to whom. We are supposed to be freelance professionals working within the same industry. None of us can really survive without the others. Granted not all projects or services require all job roles, but we all have our place in the grand scheme of things.

To look down upon those who cut code or deal with irate users is unprofessional behaviour. It creates the sort of environment where some people think they live in an ivory tower yet in reality the IT department is a disorganaized shambles that screws the rest of the organisation. I have seen that on enough sites that I'm sick of it.

Just do your job and try to do it well. When those around you are crap, help them be better. If they don't want to be better, do something about that.

But don't whinge just because you resent working in a matrix-managed environment where no bugger knows who is working for whom - that isjust how it is if you want to earn £00s per day for sitting on your arse in a heated office.

So don't moan about being given work to do like a civil servant does. If you don't like the situation: speak up and say so at ClientCo and recommend a better way of doing things.

[RichardCranium]

Wow, point totally missed Dicko,

Oh no I didn't. It's another silly thread about who is 'senior' to whom. We are supposed to be freelance professionals working within the same industry. None of us can really survive without the others. Granted not all projects or services require all job roles, but we all have our place in the grand scheme of things.

To look down upon those who cut code or deal with irate users is unprofessional behaviour. It creates the sort of environment where some people think they live in an ivory tower yet in reality the IT department is a disorganaized shambles that screws the rest of the organisation. I have seen that on enough sites that I'm sick of it.

Just do your job and try to do it well. When those around you are crap, help them be better. If they don't want to be better, do something about that.

But don't whinge just because you resent working in a matrix-managed environment where no bugger knows who is working for whom - that isjust how it is if you want to earn £00s per day for sitting on your arse in a heated office.

So don't moan about being given work to do like a civil servant does. If you don't like the situation: speak up and say so at ClientCo and recommend a better way of doing things.

[Shimano105]

Wow, point totally missed Dicko, it was a question regarding pecking order, followed by some lame comments by an old has-been that runs a tat shop.

Hope you fare better in the new job.

[suityou01]

What a strange thread. It should have been titled:

"Woe is me! Nobody suffers more than I do!"

Now shut up, the lot of you, and get on with your work before Bob S. comes in and catches us mucking about and sacks the lot of us.

Yes boss.

[RichardCranium]

What a strange thread. It should have been titled:

"Woe is me! Nobody suffers more than I do!"

Now shut up, the lot of you, and get on with your work before Bob S. comes in and catches us mucking about and sacks the lot of us.

[MarillionFan]

Whatever, I can't do anything else so a developer I will stay. I'll be working in B&Q when the time comes.

I doubt you'll land up in B&Q. You need a personality for that. More like MaccyD's.

[Shimano105]

Whatever, I can't do anything else so a developer I will stay. I'll be working in B&Q when the time comes.

[MarillionFan]

Don't believe you

Rent boy brothels mostly.