Reply to: the car's esp system a hinderance in the snow

[threaded]

Hilarious - you just expect anyone else to get out of the way when they encounter you coming sideways around a left hander then?

One of my YouTube vids is of the feet doing a little dance in a rally car.

[Paddy]

Hilarious - you just expect anyone else to get out of the way when they encounter you coming sideways around a left hander then?

I will try and post on Youtube

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Driving on snow and ice my ABS is switched off. My driving technique would not work with it on.

I like to get a feel for the surface through the steering. Braking is not the only factor that locks up wheels, for example turning too sharply will lock the wheels and skidding. I actually use skidding to control the car. Rear wheel drive is great for corners as it is possible to get round just by a little twitch or the steering and controlled acceleration. With FWD I prefer left foot braking to swing the back out when necessary (can’t be done with ABS).

Hilarious - you just expect anyone else to get out of the way when they encounter you coming sideways around a left hander then?

[RichardCranium]

When I started a thread about ESP, I got comments about gymnasiums and gladiators!

But you came back.

[mudskipper]

When I started a thread about ESP, I got comments about gymnasiums and gladiators! Anyway - got given helpful advice at a road safety course I found myself attending - see link

[Paddy]

Driving on snow and ice my ABS is switched off. My driving technique would not work with it on.

I like to get a feel for the surface through the steering. Braking is not the only factor that locks up wheels, for example turning too sharply will lock the wheels and skidding. I actually use skidding to control the car. Rear wheel drive is great for corners as it is possible to get round just by a little twitch or the steering and controlled acceleration. With FWD I prefer left foot braking to swing the back out when necessary (can’t be done with ABS).

[SuperZ]

I think the traction control is kicking in before the car has reached the ultimate traction on snow

If traction control kicks in at 15% slippage but on snow the maximum grip of the tyres is at 25% slippage, the ESP will cut the power before optimum grip on snow is reached. Best to disable it temporarily, then enable it again once up the hill.

[Sysman]

Wow! A car with extra sensory perception! How flash!

Extra Sensory Perception is what I thought when I read the title.

ABS once smashed a brake disk on me. Look no brakes!

[shaunbhoy]

for the journey from the house to the motorway had to switch of the ESP as the car wouldn't climb the hills in the snow with the ESP on

Wow! A car with extra sensory perception! How flash!

[Peoplesoft bloke]

and BMW's system for both the loud and quite pedals, OMG, is it tulip or what!

Another reason not to buy heap of over-hyped German tulipe

[Spacecadet]

source?

Roadcraft

[Spacecadet]

That would be the argument that locked tyres will cut through the debris to hard surface? AFAIK it's just an argument. OK in real sand, build up a ridge of sand in front of the wheels and then drive over that.

ABS almost always brakes the car slower than non-ABS.
The advantage of ABS is that it allows the driver to control the car when emergency braking. Locked wheels do not allow the vehicle to change direction easily.

As you said, on a loose surface locked wheels will dig into and allow material to build up infront of the wheels helping to slow the car even faster.

[VectraMan]

source?

Try it.

I've been playing with mine on my snow covered road. If I stand on the brake the ABS cuts in and removes pretty much all the braking force and it takes forever to stop. If I modulate the brake myself, and ease off when I feel the wheel lock, it's no exageration to say I can stop in a quarter of the distance.

The same is true in the dry as well, but to a much lesser extent. ABS really is poor and can be out performed by a good driver.

[RichardCranium]

On a loose surface a car with ABS will take longer to stop than a car without.

Some years ago I was driving down a small hill toward a roundabout in our newish car when it had been snowing. Conditions similar to now.

I applied the brakes and juddery-juddery-juddery we went all the way down the hill and onto the roundabout and all in a dead straight line, regardless of what I did with the steering wheel. The roundabout was on the A41.

The ABS packed up year or so later and I mentioned it to the garage. They said "Leave it. It always packs up after a few years and nobody gets it fixed."

I could have done a far, far better job of stopping from 25 mph on a slight slope on snow than that poxy, useless, heap-of-wank ABS failed to do, and have subsequently proved it in the same car.

[Moscow Mule]

'On various cars and motorbikes over the years I've added switches and/or altered the programming so I can switch the blessed things off.'


threaded, I gotta say, that has to be post of the year so far

Milan.

Altering programming on newer cars is actually very easy, as long as you have the right cable and software.

Knowing what to do so you don't burn out your coil pack every 2000 miles is another matter....