Reply to: Giving Peace a Chance ?

[Mailman]

You know what, I agree that guy in front of parliament should be removed. His protest is an eyesore and he smells. Not to mention he is also probably abusing several government benefits by not looking for work

Mailman

[DodgyAgent]

Good observation DA

First and foremost, irrespective of whether his protest is miguided , and that is a debate in its own right, we must repect the fundamental right of peaceful protest.

Whatever the true natre of his protest he cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be termed a Dangerous Organised Criminal as the Act defines, simply because he engaged in a peaceful protest.

The fact is that Blair has went to the extreme of creating a law to deal with a solitary protest to supress what Blair sees as a painful reminder of a War he led the country into.

That amounts to an utter and dangerous abuse of our Democratic and Legal system and I condemn it completly.

I should have just agreed with your point in the first place Alf

[AlfredJPruffock]

Well why dont M15 just dress up as vagrants and go and take him out at night?

The seem to be very well versed in "assisted suicide in the field" so it should be childs play for them.

Given the incompetence of the authorites Im sure it would end up with the MI5 vagrants being arrested by unsuspecting policemen en route ,under the Dangerous Vagrants Acts , then in a desperate attempt to conceal their mission a bloody shootout occurs.

All in a Days Work.

[wendigo100]

Well why dont M15 just dress up as vagrants and go and take him out at night?

What, to a Tramps Ball or something?

[sunnysan]

Mi5

Well why dont M15 just dress up as vagrants and go and take him out at night?

The seem to be very well versed in "assisted suicide in the field" so it should be childs play for them.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Unfortunately this goon (who is on government benefits) is still there. A perfect example of how Parliament was unable to deal with him after passing a law created for that purpose

AND...the law doesnt stop protests, just unauthorised protests within 1km of Westminster. The stupid woman could have protested 1km and 1m away and been ok. But no, she chose the break the law and is now suffering the consequences!

Mailman

Well and Good.

But Mr Haws has not broken the law drafted by our leader Mr Blair to nail him , so I assume you are giving him full support MailMan.



That is very gracious of you.

[Mailman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this another dreadful New Labour legislation c*ckup, in that it did not cover people who had started their protest before it was enacted, thereby leaving Brian Haw to continue his protest unabated?

Unfortunately this goon (who is on government benefits) is still there. A perfect example of how Parliament was unable to deal with him after passing a law created for that purpose

AND...the law doesnt stop protests, just unauthorised protests within 1km of Westminster. The stupid woman could have protested 1km and 1m away and been ok. But no, she chose the break the law and is now suffering the consequences!

Mailman

[AlfredJPruffock]

More on that Flawed Dangerous Organised Criminal Bill

Really does show the cavalier attitude and above all, sheer incompetence of the Blair Government.


And to think Blair was once a lawyer, I wonder if he personally drafted the billl ?




An anti-war protester who has maintained a 24-hour-a-day vigil outside parliament for four years can stay because of a mistake in the drafting of a new law designed to stop him and other protesters from demonstrating there.


Three judges decided by a 2-1 majority in the high court that legislation brought in to control demonstrations around the Houses of Parliament did not apply to Brian Haw.

Mr Haw's solicitor, David Thomas, said:

"It is clearly embarrassing for the government if they intended to catch Brian's demonstration, and that was their position in court.

Clearly they drafted the legislation very badly.

We are very happy that the court has upheld the very important principle that, if you are legislating for a criminal offence, you have to be absolutely clear about what you are doing."

Allowing his application for judicial review, Lady Justice Smith, sitting with Mr Justice McCombe and Mr Justice Simon, said the new law did not catch Mr Haw because of a drafting error. She said:

"If parliament wishes to criminalise any particular activity, it must do so in clear terms. If it wishes to do so, parliament can amend this act."

Home Office lawyers accepted that the original drafting of the 2005 Serious Organised Crime and Police Act, which was passed in April and introduced the demo clampdown, was flawed.

An attempt was made to rectify the mistake in June through a commencement order which stated that the law applied to all demonstrators whether "starting" or "continuing" their protests.

But the judges ruled that this type of secondary legislation could not be used to criminalise Mr Haw, who has been protesting in Parliament Square since June 2001.

Lady Justice Smith said she was


"surprised" that it had been suggested that such an order could be used "to criminalise conduct which would not otherwise be criminal".

She said the court could not take into account statements made in parliament making it clear that the 2005 act was meant to catch Mr Haw because the wording of the legislation was "neither obscure nor ambiguous".

If the wording is clear, judges must base their decisions on that and cannot look behind it to discover parliament's intentions.


Mr Haw, 56, initially demonstrated against western sanctions against Iraq and later against the UK's involvement in the US-led war and its aftermath. Described by his QC, Richard Drabble, as a committed Christian with a passion for peace and human rights, he sleeps in the square and has built up a large and highly visible display of anti-war banners, placards and flags, many presented by well-wishers.

Outside court, he said he would continue his demonstration "for as long as it takes". He added: "God bless the judges. Let them have a good holiday."

Mr Haw said that after years of protesting, 24 hours a day, seven days a week - amounting to 1,517 days and nights - he was feeling "tired", but would not take a break.

He said: "Yes, I would like a holiday, but I have no choice. What about our soldiers in Iraq? Do they have any choice?

"I am gutted because people are still dying. Politicians have gone on holiday. The noble lady and gentlemen who delivered this good verdict today are going off for a well-deserved break, but the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine are still dying in these war-torn countries. It has got to stop. I can't stop until that stops."

A Home Office spokesman said: "We're examining the judgment carefully". He refused to comment on the likelihood of an appeal.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Alf I do agree that this is an abuse of power, but I also detest these people who clearly have their own agenda who exploit others under the pretence that they are doing other people a favour

Good observation DA

First and foremost, irrespective of whether his protest is miguided , and that is a debate in its own right, we must repect the fundamental right of peaceful protest.

Whatever the true natre of his protest he cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be termed a Dangerous Organised Criminal as the Act defines, simply because he engaged in a peaceful protest.

The fact is that Blair has went to the extreme of creating a law to deal with a solitary protest to supress what Blair sees as a painful reminder of a War he led the country into.

That amounts to an utter and dangerous abuse of our Democratic and Legal system and I condemn it completly.

[wendigo100]

So Alfred (excellent scripture by the way) how would you propose to defend the oppressed say the likes of the Shia under Saddam?

Chico, where do you actually draw the line on this?

In extremis, would you support a nuclear conflict, with a high risk to all human life on earth, in order to defend the oppressed?

Example: Would you have supported the USA attacking the old Soviet Union?

[AlfredJPruffock]

Alfred why don't you answer my question?

Of course I will answer that fully , but please be so kind as to answer mine first, if that does not pose a problem for you.

I am glad that you enjoyed the scripture, but sadly I have to tell you that the link came from Mr Haws website , you will be dissapointed to learn that treehuggers by the name of Christian Solidartiy are supporting Mr Haw

Disguisting isnt it , perhaps we ought to crucify these treehuggers to teach them a lesson in State Respect ?

http://www.csw.org.uk/Resources/Pray...php?=link_date


Perhaps you might care to include the following in your prayers.


Human rights defenders
Sunday 4th December – Saturday 10th December

Those who work for human rights have an impassioned and God-given stubbornness about them.They refuse to be defeated by obstacles most of us would consider to be impossible.They keep working when many of us would give up and they care despite often being unrecognised. CSW would not be able to do the work it does without the tireless work of human rights defenders.They often risk their family security, finances, careers and even their lives to bring the truth to light and to bring God’s love to those they are fighting for.

Shahbaz Bhatti, Cecil Chaudhry, Pervez Chaudhry

All three are extremely committed and brave human rights defenders from Pakistan. Pray for them as they all face threats from extremists, yet continue to follow their vocation to speak up for human rights and justice.

Dr KB Rokaya

Nepal’s civil war which started in 1996, has left some 12,000 dead and more than 200,000 displaced. Dr Rokaya is head of the ecumenical Christian Efforts for Peace, Justice and Reconciliation. Pray for him as he seeks to bring Christian values to the peace process.

Aung San Suu Kyi

Burma’s people continue to struggle under the yoke of the oppressive military regime. Pray for Daw Aung San Suu Kyi who has spent some ten years under house arrest. Pray she would have courage and perseverance to lead the National League for Democracy.

Dr Oscar Biscet

Dr Biscet was sentenced to 25 years for his human rights protests against the Cuban government. He has continued protesting in prison with fasts and by smuggling out denunciations of the abuse of prisoners. His Bible has been regularly confiscated and his health has suffered badly.

Dr Norbert Vollertsen

He originally travelled to North Korea in 1999 to assess the state’s health service. He fell out of favour and was expelled, despite winning a ‘friendship’ medal. Pray for him as he now works tirelessly to bring attention to horrific human rights abuses.

Wuille Ruiz Figueroa

Pray for Wuille, a lawyer in Peru, as he campaigns for all those wrongfully imprisoned on false charges of terrorism. He and his wife Silvia and daughter Esteli, have received repeated threats because of his work.

Intercession >>>

LORD God, you are always on the side of the oppressed, the poor and the weak.You move in power and you move through individuals being obedient to your calling. Thank you for all those who, because of their love for you, have committed themselves to bringing your justice, your love and your care to those who suffer injustice. Please protect them and their families, anoint their calling and help them to know your presence.

“Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.” Psalm 82.3

[DodgyAgent]

But the real issue here is that the control freaks of NL are tyring their upmost to stifle any dissenting opposition to their policies.

Surely DA it is not appropiate to charge her under the Serious Organised Crimes Act, introduced by NL in April, whichin turn was designed to get rid of a protestor as described below.

PS No I dont know if they had permission to read out the lists of Iraqi dead, but as that was in the thousands it would have been rather difficult to arrange, yet somehow I doubt the Iraqis would have objected.




Extract

After a three-hour hearing, she was found guilty of breaching Section 132 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005; she was given a conditional discharge and ordered to pay £100 costs.

The law, which came into power in April, makes it illegal to hold an unauthorised protest within 1km of Parliament Square. It was introduced partly to get rid of a long-term and noisy peace protester, Brian Haw, whose one-man vigil outside the gates of the Palace of Westminster was considered a nuisance.

Ms Evans was arrested, along with follow demonstrator, Milan Rai, in October as they stood next to the Cenotaph, close to the gated entrance to Downing Street. Mr Rai, 40, a writer, was reading out the names of dead Iraqi civilians.

The pair had been intending to ring a bell for each of the names read out. Mr Rai, who had spoken to the police in advance about his protest, was not charged.

Alf I do agree that this is an abuse of power, but I also detest these people who clearly have their own agenda who exploit others under the pretence that they are doing other people a favour

[Chico]

Alfred why don't you answer my question?

[AlfredJPruffock]

So Alfred (excellent scripture by the way) how would you propose to defend the oppressed say the likes of the Shia under Saddam?

The question I put to you was regarding what Jesus would say about Mr Haws protest.

You mocked him as a treehugger yet his actions embody the very principles of Christianty itself.

Why must you mock those who defend the oppressed Chico ?

Now please let me know your thoughts on what Jesus would have said.

[Chico]

Heres a wee clue for you Chico

“Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.” Psalm 82.3



LORD God, you are always on the side of the oppressed, the poor and the weak.

You move in power and you move through individuals being obedient to your calling.

Thank you for all those who, because of their love for you, have committed themselves to bringing your justice, your love and your care to those who suffer injustice.

Please protect them and their families, anoint their calling and help them to know your presence.

So Alfred (excellent scripture by the way) how would you propose to defend the oppressed say the likes of the Shia under Saddam?