Reply to: Msc in computing

[Francko]

Aye, fantastic mate, a medical degree is not really needed to be a doctor.

What fckin nursery did you do your degree in?

The idiots you find on the internet, I tell yee.

Strangely but not too many years ago it was like this in some countries.

http://elane.stanford.edu/wilson/htm...ap4-sect8.html

"As already mentioned it was commonplace at the beginning of the nineteenth century in America to practice medicine with no other training than apprenticeships such as Goforth completed in New York before the riot, and as Drake completed under Goforth's preceptorship in 1804."

I am not against formal examinations for a profession. What I am against is the need for a formalised path and academia while there are certainly many more ways to learn a job (though ok medicine is a bit of a bad example since hospitals and universities are close to one another and there is no path for learning outside them nowadays).

Your minestrone is boiling, cool it down or the vegetables start becoming sour.

[minestrone]

In some countries there are engineer corporations (I know the italian Albo degli Ingegneri for example).

The example you mentioned is not relevant. Of course it can only apply for experience relevant to specific professions.

Doctors in medicine need a degree to start practicsing (I don't believe that this is good for the profession in general, but it certainly helps to limit the number of people in the profession). This is not needed in IT and many other engineering fields. If tomorrow they start liberalising doctors I'd certainly be cured by somebody who had cured patients for 10 years rather than somebody with a nice polished piece of paper on the wall only and no experience.

Aye, fantastic mate, a medical degree is not really needed to be a doctor.

What fckin nursery did you do your degree in?

The idiots you find on the internet, I tell yee.

[threaded]

I think Barristers must be engaged by solicitors and can't be approached directly by clients? That would explain why their rates lower - the whole system is literally a legal monopoly

IIRC Baristers don't have to (so much) pay tax, so they can be cheaper.

Just like the Bobs etc. in IT.

HTH

[AtW]

In fact I was looking a friends' case and the barrister's hourly rate was cheaper than the all the solicitors' and the majority of the legal executives in the firm she was using. (But that comes of using solicitors in London. )

I think Barristers must be engaged by solicitors and can't be approached directly by clients? That would explain why their rates lower - the whole system is literally a legal monopoly

[SueEllen]

Now lawyers in this country is another matter - they are artificially monopolised which enables them to keep very high rates which practically mean that most people in this country can't afford legal help and they won't get legal aid either due to means testing.

Talking to one of the solicitors I know you can get away with using a legal executive in lots of cases. However their fees may not be cheaper than a solicitor.

In fact I was looking a friends' case and the barrister's hourly rate was cheaper than the all the solicitors' and the majority of the legal executives in the firm she was using. (But that comes of using solicitors in London. )

[AtW]

If as a software engineer I had a proper "software engineering" degree would not have changed much in my career I believe.

How about degree in ethics? Would that have changed your career much?

[Francko]

...

"Engineer is a profession"

Engineer is a title. Engineering is a profession. The use of the word Engineer is protected in most of europe but not this country.

On a personal note that is one of my biggest regret not to have chosen engineering over my current degrees (economics and finance in Italy plus an MSc conversion course in UK). However compared the curricula and seeing what I am missing among exams I have given and the ones learnt on the job is only mechanics and electronics. Surely nice to have but never really needed them for my job. If as a software engineer I had a proper "software engineering" degree would not have changed much in my career I believe.

[AtW]

If tomorrow they start liberalising doctors I'd certainly be cured by somebody who had cured patients for 10 years rather than somebody with a nice polished piece of paper on the wall only and no experience.

Proper doctor's won't get nice polished piece of paper without experience - the organisation is very rigid there for a good reason - mistakes will cost lives.

Some of their decisions will have long term effects - many years since job was done, and doctor might not even be in place to sue by the time problems happened.

One would have to be insane to relax educational/training requirements for doctors.

Now lawyers in this country is another matter - they are artificially monopolised which enables them to keep very high rates which practically mean that most people in this country can't afford legal help and they won't get legal aid either due to means testing.

[Francko]

Would you trust someone that has worked for 10 years in a doctor's surgery treating you child when they have never went through a medical degree? the reception staff for example? They have worked in medicine for years so by your example they should be allowed to call themsleves doctors.

"Engineer is a profession"

Engineer is a title. Engineering is a profession. The use of the word Engineer is protected in most of europe but not this country.

In some countries there are engineer corporations (I know the italian Albo degli Ingegneri for example).

The example you mentioned is not relevant. Of course it can only apply for experience relevant to specific professions.

Doctors in medicine need a degree to start practicsing (I don't believe that this is good for the profession in general, but it certainly helps to limit the number of people in the profession). This is not needed in IT and many other engineering fields. If tomorrow they start liberalising doctors I'd certainly be cured by somebody who had cured patients for 10 years rather than somebody with a nice polished piece of paper on the wall only and no experience.

[minestrone]

Engineer is a profession. Anyone who is able to perform that job can have this title. People who spent 10 years of experience working as engineers do deserve the "Engineer" title more than people who just completed a degree but don't have any working experience. You can only claim the title of the Diploma in Engineering. That's it.

Would you trust someone that has worked for 10 years in a doctor's surgery treating you child when they have never went through a medical degree? the reception staff for example? They have worked in medicine for years so by your example they should be allowed to call themsleves doctors.

"Engineer is a profession"

Engineer is a title. Engineering is a profession. The use of the word Engineer is protected in most of europe but not this country.

[Francko]

It is something that will never happen, I agree, but it is something that should happen. The devaluation of the word Engineer in this country pisses me off no end. Spent 5 years studying engineering to earn the use of the word, gf spent 5 years studying medicine to earn the title of Doctor. If I was to claim I was a doctor I would get banged up yet everyone is using the word engineer in job titles.

Engineer is a profession. Anyone who is able to perform that job can have this title. People who spent 10 years of experience working as engineers do deserve the "Engineer" title more than people who just completed a degree but don't have any working experience. You can only claim the title of the Diploma in Engineering. That's it.

[SueEllen]

It is something that will never happen, I agree, but it is something that should happen. The devaluation of the word Engineer in this country pisses me off no end. Spent 5 years studying engineering to earn the use of the word, gf spent 5 years studying medicine to earn the title of Doctor. If I was to claim I was a doctor I would get banged up yet everyone is using the word engineer in job titles.

Get a PhD then you will be a true doctor and not have an honorary title.

[minestrone]

That'll be never then.

The Institutions have been banging on about that sort of thing forever.

Any Tom, Dick or Bob can term himself an "Engineer" in this country.

i.e. The Sanitation Engineers, a.k.a. bin men.

It is something that will never happen, I agree, but it is something that should happen. The devaluation of the word Engineer in this country pisses me off no end. Spent 5 years studying engineering to earn the use of the word, gf spent 5 years studying medicine to earn the title of Doctor. If I was to claim I was a doctor I would get banged up yet everyone is using the word engineer in job titles.

[minestrone]

Engineering degrees have morphed into MEng's now. At least those accredited for CEng registration have. BEng and BEng(Hons) now doesn't get you CEng, it gets you IEng registration.

I was a cheeky scamp and got my accrediation for IMechE with my hons 1 year before they asked for a Masters.

Churchill will no doubt fly into this thread demanding he is real engineer with his paid for engineering certification with a mickey mouse organisation.

No Churchill, you are not a qualified engineer despite your "I am Doctor Ian Paisley and I earned my title" stylee rant. Engineers go to university Churchill.

[PM-Junkie]

Is a Masters not just a Masters, I have never known anyone to say they have an advanced Masters.

A masters is an advanced degree...I think that's where the confusion has arisen. I'm with you - "advanced masters" is a new one on me too.