Reply to: Latest Ryanair £5 con

[tim123]

That's right. But that's the whole point: the airport (with its costs) is part of what you're buying, not an extra.

But the problem is you usually can't separate them.

You get Ryanair's tulipty customer service to Ryanair's poorly located cheaper airport, or (relatively) decent customer service to an expensive airport.

Some people might like, Ryanair's tulipty service to the expensive airport, and other's might like a decent full service airline to the cheaper airport.

Trouble is you usually can't get them.

Tim

[tim123]

Given the price of paying the fare to get to Heathrow (tube zone 6 or Heathrow Xpress) as opposed to Stansted, I don't think you can say that it costs less to get to the big airports!!

Ryan Air's location in the UK is virtually unique (within their business model). In almost every other country that they fly to, the airport is some tin-pot hut in the middle of nowhere, where the only usable public transport is a Taxi.

tim

[expat]

But that's because they don't have the huge capital costs of a large airport.

If you don't have a car to drive to the airport, these small airports are a bugger to get to. You spend more in the extra cost of getting there than this difference in 'airport fees'.

tim

That's right. But that's the whole point: the airport (with its costs) is part of what you're buying, not an extra.

[Rebecca Loos]

Given the price of paying the fare to get to Heathrow (tube zone 6 or Heathrow Xpress) as opposed to Stansted, I don't think you can say that it costs less to get to the big airports!!

[tim123]

Quite. In fact the airline can make competitive business deals with its suppliers, if you regard the good supplied as "an airport", not "a particular airport". Deal with Zurich and it costs a lot; deal with "Paris" Beauvais or "Düsseldorf" Weeze as Ryanair do, and it costs less.

But that's because they don't have the huge capital costs of a large airport.

If you don't have a car to drive to the airport, these small airports are a bugger to get to. You spend more in the extra cost of getting there than this difference in 'airport fees'.

tim

[expat]

As to the other costs 'creamed' off by our partners, then that is all part of starting a business.

.....

If 3-4 GBP a pax is an uncompetitive charge for checking in 200 pax then someone will offer to do it cheaper, the fact that they don't suggests that it bears a reasonable relationship to the actual cost of this task.

tim

Quite. In fact the airline can make competitive business deals with its suppliers, if you regard the good supplied as "an airport", not "a particular airport". Deal with Zurich and it costs a lot; deal with "Paris" Beauvais or "Düsseldorf" Weeze as Ryanair do, and it costs less.

It is, as you say, all part of doing business.

[expat]

Don't know what you're on about here expat.

The fuel surcharge is "the amount that fuel has gone up since we priced the flight". But they only sold you the flight last week so they should know how much fuel is going to cost them.

....

Why should the airport services run at a loss just to increase the airlines profits?

tim

I agree, tim, that's why I put it in quotes. "Taxes" are just part of the airline's costs. They're therefore part of the reason why the airline can't offer flights below a certain price, but it's dishonest of them to claim that they are.

It's like the corner shop selling you a packet of fags for 40p. Plus taxes of course.

Hmm: I'm available for £4 an hour, plus taxes, mortgage, child support, .....

[expat]

Im wanting to buy shares in what ever company is creaming off the airport taxes. Anyone know who these companies are?

Mailman

BAA for example.

[Mailman]

Im wanting to buy shares in what ever company is creaming off the airport taxes. Anyone know who these companies are?

Mailman

[tim123]

Zurich's are 55 EUR (including 22 EUR "fuel surcharge"). So Helvetic just can't offer prices anything like Easyjet's, not with 110 EUR creamed off by the airport and its partners. Think of that when you ask why the low-price airlines fly from airports in the middle of nowhere!

Don't know what you're on about here expat.

The fuel surcharge is "the amount that fuel has gone up since we priced the flight". But they only sold you the flight last week so they should know how much fuel is going to cost them.

A Fuel surcharge is not "some arbitary charge that someone else is charging us that we could avoid by buying somewhere else", but "an arbitary amount of money that we have separated out from the total cost to make our headline ticket price look cheaper".

As to the other costs 'creamed' off by our partners, then that is all part of starting a business. When you are an established player like RA you can employ your own full-time check-in staff, but when you only fly once a day to an airport you have to hire them in locally.

It's called subcontracting. Who are you to say that the amount the subcontractors charge is unreasonable for what they do? Do you know how much it costs to provide half a dozen check in staff for an hour each day and then have to find something else to do with them for the rest of the day?
I bet you don't and neither do I. But I do know that I charge my client a hourly rate that everyone else thinks is extortionate but that I think is barely enough to justify the (un)employment risks that I take. If 3-4 GBP a pax is an uncompetitive charge for checking in 200 pax then someone will offer to do it cheaper, the fact that they don't suggests that it bears a reasonable relationship to the actual cost of this task.

Why should the airport services run at a loss just to increase the airlines profits?

tim

[expat]

Once again it is the tax that is the real problem!! I had a 6 month contract in Dublin and used RyanAir weekly. My flight ticket was slightly cheaper than a weekly train ticket into London.

We have all been spoilt in the past by other airlines. When I want the "little luxuries" I will pay for it but if not, I will fly with Ryanair. Just hope they dont start doing long-haul......!!

The "taxes" are the real problem with rock-bottom flight prices. While some airlines may simply conceal part of the price there, others don't, but just charge you exactly what they themselves have to hand over. For example, Easyjet have sometimes made a point of breaking down the taxes and charges in detail, so that you know that they're only passing on charges from government, airports, fuel suppliers, banks, etc. Both Easyjet and Ryanair want to keep the taxes separate, so that you know how much less you could be flying for if the other parties charged you less.

The effect can be impressive: when I fly from Switzerland to England I can fly with Easyjet from Basel-Mulhouse, or with Helvetic from Zurich. Basel-Mulhouse's taxes are about 14 EUR each way, Zurich's are 55 EUR (including 22 EUR "fuel surcharge"). So Helvetic just can't offer prices anything like Easyjet's, not with 110 EUR creamed off by the airport and its partners. Think of that when you ask why the low-price airlines fly from airports in the middle of nowhere!

[Mustang]

Once again it is the tax that is the real problem!! I had a 6 month contract in Dublin and used RyanAir weekly. My flight ticket was slightly cheaper than a weekly train ticket into London.

We have all been spoilt in the past by other airlines. When I want the "little luxuries" I will pay for it but if not, I will fly with Ryanair. Just hope they dont start doing long-haul......!!

[mcquiggd]

Once got a KLM flight from Norwich to Amsterdam for £5 plus £15 taxes - return. Flightime 1 hour 20 minutes.


The taxi to and from Norwich airport cost £15. Journey time 10 minutes.

[tim123]

If you read the instructions you will see that the five pound all in offer is only available to 6 destinations.

As to the Taxes they only ever add about 30 quid to my return flights, where did 60 pounds come from (or was that for two flights?)

tim

[Fleetwood]

I think you've misread the ad. Five pounds for a seat plus taxes. Airport taxes are much more than a fiver anyway. Sometimes Ryanair give flights away.