Reply to: Blair, you are a terrorist

[cupidstunt]

but ask yourself - what would you do in their shoes?

Whatever it takes to get my hands on those 70 odd virgins asap.

[snaw]

I havent read the goldstone report, but I gather from the gist that it equates the Israeli activities (that include invading Lebanon) as no more morally wrong than the hezbollah or hamas bombing of Israeli civilian targets that initiated the Israeli invasion.

The fact that Israelis do not deliberatly target palestinian citizens whereas Hezbollah and Hamas do- they even hide by using their own civilians as shields-, is of no consequence in the argument.

Well, maybe not with actual weapons (Though that's debatable, but as a rule it's not an official policy).

But building bloody big walls, knicking their land, denying them economic opportunities, assassinating their leaders with no due process etc. They're not exactly innocent in all this either.

That's not to say I agree with the Palestinian approach of bombs and rockets etc (Seems kind of counter productive to me) but ask yourself - what would you do in their shoes?

[DodgyAgent]

Its clear where you stand. Fair enough. But the peace process there requires an honest broker, which I don't think Blair is. And as for who Israel targets:-

"The report concludes that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population."

Ref: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/middle_east/8257446.stm

Which was the point I was making, whether you agree with it or not. My view is that Blair's silence was morally wrong.

I agree about Blair, but the report failed to recognise the fact that Hamas terrorists were deliberatly launching missiles from the midst of their own civilians, thus deliberatly inviting retaliation that would bring about heavy civilian casualties that would fool people like you.

[TinTrump]

I havent read the goldstone report, but I gather from the gist that it equates the Israeli activities (that include invading Lebanon) as no more morally wrong than the hezbollah or hamas bombing of Israeli civilian targets that initiated the Israeli invasion.

To people like you there is no differential morally between the activities of either side.

Its clear where you stand. Fair enough. But the peace process there requires an honest broker, which I don't think Blair is. And as for who Israel targets:-

"The report concludes that the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the Gaza population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population."

Ref: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/mobile/middle_east/8257446.stm

Which was the point I was making, whether you agree with it or not. My view is that Blair's silence was morally wrong.

[DodgyAgent]

My argument? I think I just stated it and also what the Goldstone report concluded, which you've totally ignored.

What is your opinion on this?

I havent read the goldstone report, but I gather from the gist that it equates the Israeli activities (that include invading Lebanon) as no more morally wrong than the hezbollah or hamas bombing of Israeli civilian targets that initiated the Israeli invasion.

If you agree with that then it is therefore not unreasonable to argue that all killings however motivated are on a par morally with each other.

The fact that Israelis do not deliberatly target palestinian citizens whereas Hezbollah and Hamas do- they even hide by using their own civilians as shields-, is of no consequence in the argument. To people like you there is no differential morally between the activities of either side. Even worse for Israel is that they are if anything more in the wrong because more palestinian civilains are killed than Israelis.

The fact that Hamas and Hezbollah have openly declared that they wish to wipe Israel out, as against the different view of the Israelis - which recognises the existence of its oponents and a desire to live peacefully with them- is neither here nor there.

[TinTrump]

My argument? I think I just stated it and also what the Goldstone report concluded, which you've totally ignored.

What is your opinion on this?

[DodgyAgent]

It did. I think Brits are more sensitive to these issues after 30+ years of exposure to terrorism. I'm not an apologist for either side.

Consider the just released Goldstone report which points to war crimes by both sides. Yet as usual Palestinian civilians suffer 10x as much. That's why Blair should have called for a halt. Or don't you agree?

So your argument goes that a killing is a killing and there is no difference in the morality of it all. Or is it a numbers game? the side that has the most people killed is the side that is in the right?

[singhr]

Indeed. None of my other imaginary friends speak to me

The stupid tnuc probably thinks that the world is only 10,000 years old too

[TinTrump]

And presumably it didnt really bother you that Hezbollah were raining missiles on to Israeli citizens prior to that invasion.

It did. I think Brits are more sensitive to these issues after 30+ years of exposure to terrorism. I'm not an apologist for either side.

Consider the just released Goldstone report which points to war crimes by both sides. Yet as usual Palestinian civilians suffer 10x as much. That's why Blair should have called for a halt. Or don't you agree?

[cupidstunt]

When God himself has spoken to you, such comments are water off a ducks back.

Indeed. None of my other imaginary friends speak to me

[DodgyAgent]

Quite apart from the Iraq fiasco, his silence during Israel's 2006 invasion of Lebanon made me ashamed of my country's government.

And presumably it didnt really bother you that Hezbollah were raining missiles on to Israeli citizens prior to that invasion.

[NoddY]

When God himself has spoken to you, such comments are water off a ducks back.

[TinTrump]

Quite apart from the Iraq fiasco, his silence during Israel's 2006 invasion of Lebanon made me ashamed of my country's government.

[HairyArsedBloke]

B'Liar has always reminded me of that scene in B5 where Vir says:

I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this.

[Clippy]

Still a smug fkr, isn't he.