Reply to: ID Cards, why can't we be like the Belgians?

[Joe Black]

Sometimes wish I hadn't, but since I've sort of upped sticks and based myself here it seemed to have it's advantages...

Edit: sorry but the dog ate the rest of my post.

[AlfredJPruffock]

I would be surprised if that was the case. Do you have something to back that up?

I would imagine that France is like Belgium where everything links up one way or another to the national register. Hence the reason early this year I found various envelopes from the local, regional and federal tax services dropping on my doormat even though the only thing I'd done until then was register at the town hall...

And, yes I was sort of hoping that they'd sort of forget about little ol' me...

Tsk Tsk Jo why on earth did you register at the Town Hall ?

[threaded]

ID cards 'will save firms millions'

ID cards could save businesses hundreds of millions of pounds, Home Secretary Charles Clarke has insisted.

Mr Clarke said even on conservative estimates, the private sector could benefit by up to £425 million.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1616193.html

Heh, how is that supposed to work? I can only see these ID cards costing the private sector a small fortune. For starters the government will increase the number of occupations one must have a check for and increase the price of those checks, so as to offset the cost of the cards.

After reading the article I got the distinct impression that someone in the civil service is 'aving a right laugh in a "I wonder how much crap I can write and get the minister to spout" kinda way.

[Joe Black]

An ID card like they have in France for example, is fine, as it is not linked to anything - it just has your name, photo and signature on it, so it is purely used as a proof of identity. Which is what it should be, nothing less, nothing more.

I would be surprised if that was the case. Do you have something to back that up?

I would imagine that France is like Belgium where everything links up one way or another to the national register. Hence the reason early this year I found various envelopes from the local, regional and federal tax services dropping on my doormat even though the only thing I'd done until then was register at the town hall...

And, yes I was sort of hoping that they'd sort of forget about little ol' me...

[Rebecca Loos]

Zathras expressed the right concern - the ID card by itself is not necessarily a big problem, it is the fact that it can (and therefore will) be linked to many other agencies and effectively make all our movements (physical, financial, social etc) be traceable.

An ID card like they have in France for example, is fine, as it is not linked to anything - it just has your name, photo and signature on it, so it is purely used as a proof of identity. Which is what it should be, nothing less, nothing more.

But link it to your NI number, your address, and everything else and it becomes possible for HMRC, the Immigration service, the DVLA, the NHS, insurance companies, banks, your employer etc to access a database where your whole life is stored.

The government said that we would have to notify every change, like change of addresses, if we don't, then it's a fine!

This would eliminate almost all opportunities for fraud, bar serious fraud like ID theft (that would increase of course), and people like yours truly would not be able to implement her little schemes to avoid motoring fines, cheaper insurance, council tax avoidance and the like. Outrageous! I believe the creative potential of millions of people would be at risk and there would be a serious brain drain from the UK if that was implemented. Can't let that happen

[Not So Wise]

Earlier this year the Health and Social Care Act allowed the opening up of
previously confidential medical records to any organisation considered in
the public interest, without either the consent or knowledge of the
individual whose records are to be made public.

Had not heard of this act and just skimmed though it, key term i would say is in "public interest". Insurance companies looking to calculate risk about an individual would not be "public interest", thats a private financial concern

That Joe Blogs is walking around with a highly contagious disease that will infect anyone who comes near him would be in the "public interest"

Law seems designed to enable them to warn people in the latter situation, where previously they could not.

[tim123]

Franco,

So how do people check the ID card is vaild? Do you expect every organisation in the country to have biometric testing equipment to compare against the details held on the card?

Because in addition to all the bios there's a common or garden picture on it as well. The first check will be that you have a passing resemblence to that picture and for many applications this will be enough.

tim

[sparklelard]

Fingerprints can already be checked at the road side. The immigration service use it when they stop transit van loads of people heading for the farms to determine their identity.

People who have gone through the asylum process have their fingerprints scanned and is accessble. It p1sses the police right off as they would love to have it. None of this who are you crap.

If the cards could store an image of the holder and that image is also stored on a central database...........

[Francko]

Franco,

So how do people check the ID card is vaild? Do you expect every organisation in the country to have biometric testing equipment to compare against the details held on the card?

Oh hang on this is a job for the A team, or shoulf that be EDS

Can just call the police or a special number which will check the validity of the card number. How can they do for credit cards then? Surely a biometric test will be harder to be done but at least you can check the numbers....

[MrsGoof]

Franco,

So how do people check the ID card is vaild? Do you expect every organisation in the country to have biometric testing equipment to compare against the details held on the card?

Oh hang on this is a job for the A team, or shoulf that be EDS

[Francko]

Apparently it won't be any good for that either.

ID cards will 'help fraudsters'

How can it be easier to obtain stolen ID cards (which will be certainly made useless once stolen and claimed) rather than bills?

Now, I understand he is in the London School of Economics but did he skip the class for common sense?

[Spartacus]

Spartacus, what's your point? it's like saying that because penicillin doesn't cure HIV then we really don't need it. Of course, it will NOT stop terrorism but it will be very useful in identifying small crime and identity falsification.

Apparently it won't be any good for that either.

ID cards will 'help fraudsters'

LEADING fraud experts have rejected Tony Blair’s claims that identity cards will help to stem the soaring costs of identity theft.

Dr James Backhouse, a director of the London School of Economics Information Systems Integrity Group, said that identity cards would instead become the new master key for identity fraudsters, who would be able to acquire the cards using stolen documents. An identity theft takes place every four minutes and costs the country an estimated £1.3 billion a year.

It is one of the fastest-growing crimes in Britain. Fraudsters typically use discarded utility bills or bank statements of their victims to apply for loans and credit cards. Mr Backhouse said it would be impossible for the Government to stop fraudsters from applying for identity cards using fake documents.

Once a successful application has been made, an identity fraudster will have his own biometric details imprinted on an ID card displaying fake or stolen personal information.

Dr Backhouse said: “ID cards will exacerbate the situation. The stakes are raised that much higher if the master key is cracked; it opens the door to all sorts of frauds.

[Francko]

Very true, but it gives namby pamby, cry baby scaredy cats like Chico a false feeling of security from the big bad boogeymen terrorists hiding behind every lampost.

Spartacus, what's your point? it's like saying that because penicillin doesn't cure HIV then we really don't need it. Of course, it will NOT stop terrorism but it will be very useful in identifying small crime and identity falsification.

[wendigo100]

Abusing the system?

It is possible that some companies could abuse
the system, imagine your medical records are accessed via this card. Do you
think insurance companies would miss the opportunity to request a card
check to find out if you are a good risk for them?

It's not abuse - it is legal.

Earlier this year the Health and Social Care Act allowed the opening up of
previously confidential medical records to any organisation considered in
the public interest, without either the consent or knowledge of the
individual whose records are to be made public.

Personal, private information, which will in almost all instances have no
conceivable impact on security, is now available for the authorities to do with
as they wish.

[n5gooner]

Sex?
All for it?
Hairy'un?

did someone say hairy...