Reply to: Cyclist jailed for pavement death

[dang65]

ride a bike on the pavement in milan or paris or london - think you'll only be greeted with attitude in london? i think not.

Well, Paris was one of the places I was thinking of where they have no problem. I've cycled through Les Halles, for example, which is a pedestrian precinct, and was mixing with pedestrians and bikes and also mopeds. No one batted an eyelid. I have been to Milan but it was ages ago and I can't remember what the situation with bikes was. Don't think there was room on the pavements for cycling, what with all the political rallies and riot police.

In Germany, where I'm working at the moment, there is complete integration between cyclists and pedestrians. It's true that there are more off-road cycle paths than in the UK (generally), but cyclist use the roads as well quite happily and drivers treat them as legitimate traffic.

Cycling on the roads in the UK, you get routine shouts from drivers to "get off the road... you don't even pay road tax" (d'uh, no such thing as road tax), and they also think that if there is a cycle path on the pavement then you are legally obliged to use it, which is completely untrue - cycle paths are often more dangerous than the road, and pedestrians hate you being on their pavement anyway.

It's a simple fact that the current population of the United Kingdom frankly hate each other. There's like a very quiet civil war going on.

As Sven Hassel wrote, "He was posted to a miserable frontier district where the locals were so suspicious of each other that they took their bicycles in to church with them."

[DS23]

...Throughout the rest of Europe, bikes and pedestrians mix freely and without any conflict...

hmmm. parts of europe, or in some european countries / cities / places cycling is an intrinsic part of local culture. these places will have attitudes, laws, street architecture and furniture that enable cycling to co-exist safely with all other forms movement but i would disgree that this is a uniquely british attitude. ride a bike on the pavement in milan or paris or london - think you'll only be greeted with attitude in london? i think not.

it is against the law to ride a bicycle on the pavement in britain. i'd be surprised if it isn't similarly prohibited in other european countries.

[expat]

This is such a British view of cycling. Throughout the rest of Europe, bikes and pedestrians mix freely and without any conflict. It's completely normal for a cyclist to use a bell, and for a pedestrian to move out the way, no rush and no pressure... and no grief either.

The main difference being that most Europeans are all regular walkers and regular bike riders and regular car drivers. They know what it's like to do each thing and they compensate. In the UK you are either "a pedestrian", or "a cyclist", or "a motorist" and the different classes despise and fear each other.

Spot-on IMHO. The Brits exude thoughtless selfishness, and have no concept of working or living together, which is why our cities and towns are such awful place to live. People who think that there is no such thing as society condemn themselves to living in a crap society.

[TimberWolf]

I always cycle slowly on the pavement and likewise get annoyed with speeding pavement cyclists. Those people would be a far greater menace to pedestrians if they used cars though. Cyclists that obey traffic lights in every circumstance are being too PC IMO. It many cases it makes no sense to have to wait at traffic lights with cars and most do it simply out of 'fairness' or because it's the law, though in other cases (e.g. at major junctions) one should do so. I would like to see more headlines about cyclists getting hold of 4WD wonkers and being done for manslaughter, or at the very least GBH. Perhaps then there would be less need to cycle on the pavement.

[DS23]

sometimes you have to ask yourself: what would judge dread do?

[ThomasSoerensen]

It is so nice to be here.

We are all so celver and use common sense.

And all the ones ont on CUK are mindless idiots.

I am so happy I found this place.

I sometimes cycle in Frankfurt.

Sometimes I go in a sensible way. Sometimes I am a bit abusive to pedestrians.

Sorry to lower the standards shovn here.

[Lockhouse]

I cycle 20 miles a day commuting on my bike in Central London so pretty much see it all and feel reasonably qualified to comment.

In general people that cycle like nutcases will have an accident sooner rather than later. It's almost inevitable they will have a spill.

I do cycle defensively to some extent as if I come off I know it's going to hurt even at low speed and I do obey nearly all of the traffic signals. Funnily enough when I first started the cycling commute around 3-4 years ago I was far more blasé about traffic regulations but after seeing the results of people getting knocked off etc in front of me, I'm much more careful now.

Sometimes accidents do happen no matter what though; I hit a pedestrian last month; the idiot stepped off the kerb right in front of me and I couldn't stop (on the road). As per usual I ended up worse off. I'm more worried about hitting a pedestrian than being hit by a car as pedestrians tend not look for cyclists when crossing the road.

Obviously there's no excuse for cycling on the pavement at speed, or indeed at almost any other time either. No excuse for pedestrains to push people off though - that's just as bad.

[RichardCranium]

Throughout the rest of Europe, bikes and pedestrians mix freely and without any conflict. It's completely normal for a cyclist to use a bell, and for a pedestrian to move out the way, no rush and no pressure... and no grief either.

Amsterdam. Ting! Ting! = "Move NOW or be hit as I pass and have abuse shouted at you."

[dang65]

Of course many motorists see a cyclist and overtake even if it is not safe to do so...

...or even if it will mean they smack into the kerb of a traffic island in the middle of the road. Which some plonker did when overtaking me once. About a mile down the road I passed him at a petrol station changing his wheel.

[dang65]

Have you ever tried walking on a pavement that has cyclists on it? ... One of them even rang his bell at me the other day to make sure I knew he was coming straight at me. Oddly enough, I didn't get out of his way but made him - oh horrors - get on the sodding road where he belonged.

This is such a British view of cycling. Throughout the rest of Europe, bikes and pedestrians mix freely and without any conflict. It's completely normal for a cyclist to use a bell, and for a pedestrian to move out the way, no rush and no pressure... and no grief either.

The main difference being that most Europeans are all regular walkers and regular bike riders and regular car drivers. They know what it's like to do each thing and they compensate. In the UK you are either "a pedestrian", or "a cyclist", or "a motorist" and the different classes despise and fear each other.

Nutters riding at speed into pedestrians on pavements should be prosecuted, obviously, and this guy has been. But making out that the pedestrian population of the country lives in terror of marauding cyclists is Daily Mailism gone daft(er).

[Bagpuss]

What happened to waiting? I often note how much space motorists give cyclists when driving. Invaraibly the majority do not pass in a safe manner. The same with horses, which is even more dangerous.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Of course many motorists see a cyclist and overtake even if it is not safe to do so. More than often they dont cross the lines and risk injuring the poor sod

Indeed and at least the old boy was giving the bike plently of space, even if it meant driving round a blind bend on the wrong side of the road.

[Bagpuss]

Of course many motorists see a cyclist and overtake even if it is not safe to do so. More than often they dont cross the lines and risk injuring the poor sod

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Perhaps a little bit more consideration is required all round?

FWIW, I've never hit a cyclist whilst driving a car nor a pedestrian whilst riding a bike.
OTOH, I've been hit by a bus and had countless pedestrians step out in front of me whilst cycling.

Indeed - I came around a blind bend in my car this very evening to be confronted by an elderly couple in a car on my side of the road. The driver had decided that he couldn't wait a minute for somewhere more suitable than a blind bend with a junction on it to overtake the bike on his side of the road. Lucky for him I was going slowly enough unlike most of the other other crazy morons around here who floor it at all times and force the rest of us off the narrow roads. Can't blame the cyclist, although I wouldn't have been cycling on that road (I do cycle around here but I choose my routes carefully) for fun and it was one of those recumbent bikes which made it harder to spot.

The is no pavement so that wasn't an issue.

[Bagpuss]

Have you ever tried walking on a pavement that has cyclists on it? They hardly ever give you room, they goo far to fast and far too close and quite often stop dead, and drop their machine in your way, because they want to go into a shop (Not so long ago I kicked a bike into the road that had done just that. Owner, a lycra-clad nerd with a funny hat, wasn't best pleased for some reason). One of them even rang his bell at me the other day to make sure I knew he was coming straight at me. Oddly enough, I didn't get out of his way but made him - oh horrors - get on the sodding road where he belonged.

Seriously, life sucks, Learn to live with it. You don't justify your bad behaviour by using other people's.

I wouldnt ride a bike on a busy pavement. On the other hand if there was an unused pavement beside a busy road I'd use that rather than get squashed or hit by a motorist using their car as a weapon. All pavements near busy roads should have a cycle lane split if possible.

I have been hit by cars while riding a bike (the over taking and cutting up, or pulling out of side roads into my path), but I've never hit a bike while driving, nor a pedestrian while cycling. A bit of road ettiquete goes a long way, it's gone the way of manners though.