Reply to: Neat and designed in the UK

[Churchill]

Yes if a phone charges by induction from current electromagnetic radiation from mobile masts then it will consume power and so will require the broadcaster to consume more power to operate. There will also be a greater power requirement due to transmission losses.

What about microwave background radiation originally created after the big bang?

Specifically tapping into the 21cm Hydrogen line?

Nobody has said that the phones will be using radiation generated by the mobile phone masts themselves.

If the designers had any sense they'd be tapping into the multi-kilowatt crap that's thrown out by the BBC, radio 1...

[TykeMerc]

If that's true, then a phone that charges using electromagnetic waves from the air must be consuming power from somewhere and hence will require extra transmission power or affect reception - isn't that the case?

Yes if a phone charges by induction from current electromagnetic radiation from mobile masts then it will consume power and so will require the broadcaster to consume more power to operate. There will also be a greater power requirement due to transmission losses.

[pzz76077]

If that's true, then a phone that charges using electromagnetic waves from the air must be consuming power from somewhere and hence will require extra transmission power or affect reception - isn't that the case?

Good point- everything belongs to someone. If a co's WiFi doesn't reach as far as it used to and costs them money because a bunch of freeloaders are charging up their mobiles, could they be hauled up in court??

Interesting case...

PZZ

[Peoplesoft bloke]

......
Yes you can be prosecuted for siphoning power by induction under transmission lines and the power lost is measurable.

If that's true, then a phone that charges using electromagnetic waves from the air must be consuming power from somewhere and hence will require extra transmission power or affect reception - isn't that the case?

[TykeMerc]

Would agree, sun tan analogy spurious. In any case I believe that we can already use energy from the sun, we just need an solar panel and we are in business.

In fact if everyone used the suns energy to power their mobiles, lawnmowers etc, it may cure global warming if we could do it on a large enough scale.
Wait a minute has anyone got Richard Branstons number?? Wheres my marketing team, lawyers.....

PZZ

Of course we use solar energy, we have done since human life evolved.

As omnivores we eat plant matter that uses sunlight to power photosynthesis and meat from animals that eat plant matter.
The fuels we burn in fires, engines and power stations all use solar power extracted by photsynthesis, trapped as hydrocarbons (sugars and starch) and trapped in wood, plants or fossil fuels.
Hydroelectric power is also solar fueled as the sun evaporates the water which then falls as rain and is collected by the dams. Wind generation is powered by atmospheric pressure differentials again created by sunlight in conjunction with geography.
Even nuclear power is arguably solar powered as the uranium used in reactors was produced in fusion reactions in super massive suns that then blew to bits.

Yes you can be prosecuted for siphoning power by induction under transmission lines and the power lost is measurable.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

So Alan Sugar not Richard Branston [sic]then??

PZZ

Yeah - electronics tat over pickle experience every time on this one.

[TimberWolf]

So Alan Sugar not Richard Branston then??

PZZ

Alan Sugar would produce some cheap tat in no time, while Richard Branson would probably mess about piping solar energy in from the Sahara.

[pzz76077]

In the case of solar panels, Surallens number might be more useful, this once. Solar panel technology is pretty good now (way more efficient than photosynthesis), but still horribly expensive. It needs a price revolution.

So Alan Sugar not Richard Branston then??

PZZ

[TimberWolf]

In the case of solar panels, Surallens number might be more useful, this once. Solar panel technology is pretty good now (way more efficient than photosynthesis), but still horribly expensive. It needs a price revolution.

Tzarallen

[TimberWolf]

Would agree, sun tan analogy spurious. In any case I believe that we can already use energy from the sun, we just need an solar panel and we are in business.

In fact if everyone used the suns energy to power their mobiles, lawnmowers etc, it may cure global warming if we could do it on a large enough scale.
Wait a minute has anyone got Richard Branstons number?? Wheres my marketing team, lawyers.....

PZZ

In the case of solar panels, Surallens number might be more useful, this once. Solar panel technology is pretty good now (way more efficient than photosynthesis), but still horribly expensive. It needs a price revolution.

[pzz76077]

As I said, I am not an expert in this area. The beach tan analogy seems a tad spurious, given the relative intensity of energy invloved, however surely there would be an effect on the overall amount of solar energy available if enough people decided to soak up the rays? What I mean is that amount of energy would be being used to heat people's skins and therefore not doing whatever else it normally does? So it seems logical that absorbing enough of the electromagnetic waves would have an adverse effect on transmission. This leads me to wonder if people like the BBC need to factor in the likely number of receivers - although radios (with the noted exception of crystal sets) take power from another source.

Would agree, sun tan analogy spurious. In any case I believe that we can already use energy from the sun, we just need an solar panel and we are in business.

In fact if everyone used the suns energy to power their mobiles, lawnmowers etc, it may cure global warming if we could do it on a large enough scale.
Wait a minute has anyone got Richard Branstons number?? Wheres my marketing team, lawyers.....

PZZ

[Peoplesoft bloke]

As I said, I am not an expert in this area. The beach tan analogy seems a tad spurious, given the relative intensity of energy invloved, however surely there would be an effect on the overall amount of solar energy available if enough people decided to soak up the rays? What I mean is that amount of energy would be being used to heat people's skins and therefore not doing whatever else it normally does? So it seems logical that absorbing enough of the electromagnetic waves would have an adverse effect on transmission. This leads me to wonder if people like the BBC need to factor in the likely number of receivers - although radios (with the noted exception of crystal sets) take (most of their) power from another source.

[TimberWolf]

Crystal radio sets work off radio power, I never did build one as a kid. The energy you could capture from a given area of receiver is probably going to be a lot less than you could get more easily from the other free and broader spectrum of the electromagnetic spectrum - sunlight.

[Grinder]

Not generating electricity as such, but still pretty cool.
http://richardbox.peterdibdin.com/

Why would the national grid find out you were generating minimal amounts of current from the field surrounding the lines?

Surely such a method wouldn't generate much leccy anyway? (I really can't be bothered to get those Maxwell equations out at this late hour)

It has been done - I remember reading about a man with a tin shed drawing power in this way, was deemed to be 'stealing' electricity from the grid. I suppose I should try to find the case citation....

[Moscow Mule]

If you live under power lines you can generate electricity within the magnetic field that surrounds them... remembering O level physics, I am now sticking out my hand with thumb, first and second fingers at right angles in different planes.... not sure if its left or right though.

The electric company wont like it though; they will find out.

Not generating electricity as such, but still pretty cool.
http://richardbox.peterdibdin.com/

Why would the national grid find out you were generating minimal amounts of current from the field surrounding the lines?

Surely such a method wouldn't generate much leccy anyway? (I really can't be bothered to get those Maxwell equations out at this late hour)