Reply to: Will Gordon Brown resign today ?

[The Lone Gunman]

really glad I converted all those Swiss Francs the other day. Top tip - wait untill I convert moeny as there will be a big movement against me the following days.

Can you give us prior warning so I can time my Euro transfer properly. TIA.

Elvis: I earn in Euros. Sorted.

[BoredBloke]

And on a miserable note...the pound is falling.

really glad I converted all those Swiss Francs the other day. Top tip - wait untill I convert moeny as there will be a big movement against me the following days.

[lilelvis2000]

Wow! Defence Secretary is out and its like the house of cards is collapsing.

And on a miserable note...the pound is falling.

[Doggy Styles]

You called TonyEnglish wrong. He wasn't.

[LazyFan]

Totally wrong? No he wasn't.

Tony was talking about 1983, when Foot led a shambolic left-wing party in his own image. Foot threatened to take the country back to the old union-led days. His crushing defeat caused the start of great changes in his party.
That's the first time I've ever heard that. He lost two elections. His triumphalism before the 1992 election (especially at the rally in Sheffield the day before) is universally accepted as having tipped a close-run thing. In 1987 I don't remember Kinnock being much like Blair at all. Blair had a charismatic reputation, Kinnock didn't. His nickname throughout most of his parliamentary career was the welsh windbag.

I think you miss my point. In that these individuals do not win or lose elections, despite what the press say it is in fact government policy and totally lack of understanding of the people, which is what, wins or loses elections.

You talk of Blair and Kinnock being different in presentation. Well who isn't different in the way they look and behave? But in policy they were and are exactly the same. Same as Brown is the same as Blair. Where is the difference on policy? Which is my point, Blairism is dead and no matter how Brown tries to repackage it, the country have already had enough.

This spells future trouble for Cameron as I see little policy difference there (and the public agrees with me as voter turn off of Politian’s even before the expenses scandal was high).

ID Cards? He likes em, but not the cost of them. Expect one terror incident and it will return with the excuse of "we cannot afford not to have them". Taxes? He will lower the top rate to 45%, but it's still up from 40%. So, no real change then. He will attack the public sector finances. Cameron will do a few harsh cuts and then give in to PFI (a Tory invention). As it’s run by big business who are the Tories masters. New Labour is already cutting pay, the Tories will just continue it. Wars? Yep more of them just like New Labour. I see no change.

Blairs legacy having been the longest ruling PM, will be nothing. What has he done? So, the charismatic personality actually has the largest zero footnote in history. And Browns will be he continued nothing and got kicked out for it.

No progress has been made, we are back where we started in the early 90's. And Thatchers legacy of a service economy is complete. Which is why she warmed to Blair so much, something many Tories quickly gloss over.

Thatcherism is still in power and will be afterwards too. So, always find it strange that the followers of her think things will actually get better. To explain it to the right wing, let me state it this way. Brownism (which is Blairism) is the what Cameron will do in power. Happy now?

So, no change there then.

[Menelaus]

I don't recall the early nineties being particularly great? Lots of job losses, high interest rates, and house prices falling badly, lots of repossessions.

Yep, the cyclical nature of the UK consumer economy.

[Doggy Styles]

Actually you are totally wrong. Foot only became Labour leader in 1980 AFTER Thatcher came to power in 1979.

Totally wrong? No he wasn't.

Tony was talking about 1983, when Foot led a shambolic left-wing party in his own image. Foot threatened to take the country back to the old union-led days. His crushing defeat caused the start of great changes in his party.

Kinnock lost to Thatcher because he was too much like Blair

That's the first time I've ever heard that. He lost two elections. His triumphalism before the 1992 election (especially at the rally in Sheffield the day before) is universally accepted as having tipped a close-run thing. In 1987 I don't remember Kinnock being much like Blair at all. Blair had a charismatic reputation, Kinnock didn't. His nickname throughout most of his parliamentary career was the welsh windbag.

[The Lone Gunman]

Plus the sleaze allegations, the fact that they appeared totally out of ideas, the poll tax debacle long term fallout, and a host of other minor issues not the least of which being that they had been in power far too long.
It's also arguable that the whole world economy was on a sizable rise at the time, the same rise that has crashed so spectacularly in recent months.

Sometimes I think that the Americans have the right idea with their rule of Presidents being limited to two terms as Labour have been in power far too long like the Tories were before them.

That is exactly the point. They were not seen as crap. A media frenzy (similar to the expences debacle) is what killed them. The poll tax riots were engineered by the press and the opposition.
I am not sure running out of ideas is the same as deciding a light touch on the tiller is all that is needed.

We will never know what might have happened as we can not go back.

[TykeMerc]

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

Plus the sleaze allegations, the fact that they appeared totally out of ideas, the poll tax debacle long term fallout, and a host of other minor issues not the least of which being that they had been in power far too long.
It's also arguable that the whole world economy was on a sizable rise at the time, the same rise that has crashed so spectacularly in recent months.

Sometimes I think that the Americans have the right idea with their rule of Presidents being limited to two terms as Labour have been in power far too long like the Tories were before them.

[Churchill]

Whatever you recall, ALL the press acknowledged that NL inherited a Country that was in the best stae ever handed over.
Certainly there had been a lot of pain, but the thinking at the time was that the pain was worth the result and that the Country and the economy would thrive for years to come becaue of the hard decisions made by the previous Government.
I think even soem of NLs own acknowledged this.

To be fair, it has taken Golden Clown nearly 12 years to **** it up.

And great dedication he has shown!

[The Lone Gunman]

I don't recall the early nineties being particularly great? Lots of job losses, high interest rates, and house prices falling badly, lots of repossessions.

Whatever you recall, ALL the press acknowledged that NL inherited a Country that was in the best stae ever handed over.
Certainly there had been a lot of pain, but the thinking at the time was that the pain was worth the result and that the Country and the economy would thrive for years to come becaue of the hard decisions made by the previous Government.
I think even soem of NLs own acknowledged this.

To be fair, it has taken Golden Clown nearly 12 years to **** it up.

[DimPrawn]

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

I don't recall the early nineties being particularly great? Lots of job losses, high interest rates, and house prices falling badly, lots of repossessions.

[The Lone Gunman]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

[Menelaus]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.

John Hutton leaving MoD.

[TykeMerc]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.