Reply to: HousePriceCrash.cuk - IT is doomed

[expat]

Post 378 on p26:

the other day an IT manager said to me my biggest threat was from people on working visas. He asked an agent how many CV's he had for a particular job and the agent said dozens then he asked how many of those were from people on working visa's and the agent said about 95%. I'm not sure how many were non EU. I think a lot (India). But who cares? Non Eu or Eu it's more competition for you and me.

To the agents on here: does that fit with your experience?

[Zippy]

Have you ever tried sticking the chad back into the holes in the card to correct an error?

Nah - I studied computer science not Engineering

[suityou01]

http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98...troustrup.html

Loved it Zeity, well done.

I actually agreed with some of the points raised.

I was doing quite a bit of C coding over Christmas on my plan B, and really settled back into it. Carving out chunks of memory using malloc, chucking pointers around, deallocating memory. All good stuff.

I always thought object oriented and framework languages were ahead of the curve in terms of hardware. Now that multicore CPUs are the norm it's not a problem. Sometimes it's just nice to produce something that runs, without all the baggage.

[suityou01]

Anyone who is in the industry now that used punched cards has 20+ years experience of embracing new technologies. And what we learned in that time is that most of them are fads and fashions and not new either.

<cough> licence costs <cough> Anyway, MS Access is a toy. (I argued, "Why use Oracle when I could do the same in ISAM for free?" but nobody listened to me.)

I don't understand that. That has been the opposite of my experience: the longer someone has been in the industry, the greater their appreciation of doing the job slowly and doing it only once.

I don't have a degree. Damned inconvenient that is, too. Is that what you meant? Or are you referring to the academics that have never done a day's real work in their lives?

Ergo, if you don't, it can't.

I would. There are principles and practices, just as there are in the fine art world. But every piece of code is hand-crafted from inspiration and imagination and experience. There is very rarely a 'right way' to code something. There are elegant ways, efficient ways, amusing ways, (and then there's C).

If not, you just did a copy 'n' paste.

[BrowneIssue]

In my experience the punch card brigade seem very reluctant to embrace new technologies.

Anyone who is in the industry now that used punched cards has 20+ years experience of embracing new technologies. And what we learned in that time is that most of them are fads and fashions and not new either.

"Why use Oracle when I can do just the same in Access", is a conversation I've had.

<cough> licence costs <cough> Anyway, MS Access is a toy. (I argued, "Why use Oracle when I could do the same in ISAM for free?" but nobody listened to me.)

They also see no need for documentation or version control on the code.

I don't understand that. That has been the opposite of my experience: the longer someone has been in the industry, the greater their appreciation of doing the job slowly and doing it only once.

I have also met many who have a chip on their shoulder about not having a degree.

I don't have a degree. Damned inconvenient that is, too. Is that what you meant? Or are you referring to the academics that have never done a day's real work in their lives?

I do believe programming can be taught, providing you have the right mindset.

Ergo, if you don't, it can't.

Programming also requires creativity, but I would not go so far as to say it was an art.

I would. There are principles and practices, just as there are in the fine art world. But every piece of code is hand-crafted from inspiration and imagination and experience. There is very rarely a 'right way' to code something. There are elegant ways, efficient ways, amusing ways, (and then there's C).

If not, you just did a copy 'n' paste.

[suityou01]

In my experience the punch card brigade seem very reluctant to embrace new technologies. "Why use Oracle when I can do just the same in Access", is a conversation I've had. They also see no need for documentation or version control on the code.

I'm not saying that you are all like that.
I have also met many who have a chip on their shoulder about not having a degree.

I do believe programming can be taught, providing you have the right mindset. Programming also requires creativity, but I would not go so far as to say it was an art.

I think it's all the job ads that you are precluded from if you don't have a degree. So someone with a first from Cambridge in biological sciences would make a better programmer? Don't necessarily think so.

I worked with a chap once who has a 2:1 in computer science, who once asked me how a 4 bit integer could store a 5 digit number

[expat]

In my experience the punch card brigade seem very reluctant to embrace new technologies. "Why use Oracle when I can do just the same in Access", is a conversation I've had. They also see no need for documentation or version control on the code.

I don't think you're talking about the real punch card guys here: most people who started out when the computer had its own room bigger than your house, still think that Access is a credit card.

I started on punched cards and could punch them on a 12-key hand punch, and read them visually. What I always remember went with that environment was testing, documentation, and backups. And thought: one-day turnround didn't encourage suck-it-and see compilation and testing.

[Moscow Mule]

I do believe programming can be taught, providing you have the right mindset.

Parity Training do a test to measure your programming aptitude (even if you haven't got a CS background).

I had to pass it to get on the graduate training scheme I joined back in the good old days.

[Pogle]

In my experience the punch card brigade seem very reluctant to embrace new technologies. "Why use Oracle when I can do just the same in Access", is a conversation I've had. They also see no need for documentation or version control on the code.

I'm not saying that you are all like that.
I have also met many who have a chip on their shoulder about not having a degree.

I do believe programming can be taught, providing you have the right mindset. Programming also requires creativity, but I would not go so far as to say it was an art.

[FSM with Cheddar]

You're either a computer proogrammer or you arn't. Going to university will never turn a non-programmer into a programmer

Agree, it's a mindset that can't be taught.

Programming is an art not a science.

Rubbish
There are artistic elements to development, however it is (should be) mainly an engineering practice.

[Zippy]

At last, some common sense.

(It so happens I started with punched cards. )

Punched cards? Luxury!
We had to make do with paper tape and a needle.

[TimberWolf]

It seems to be broken at the moment...

And oddly, it's not our network that's stuffed...

Okay, who broke housepricecrash.co.uk?

[Zippy]

If anyone wants to know about proper programming, from back in the day, I could give them a few pointers.

Boom boom tssch

[DimPrawn]

If anyone wants to know about proper programming, from back in the day, I could give them a few pointers.

I could give them a few pointers to your pointers.

[suityou01]

If anyone wants to know about proper programming, from back in the day, I could give them a few pointers.