Reply to: Question time II

[Doggy Styles]

Well that's Italians in general, not just their poiliticians. I had the deep joy of having some Italian stakeholders on one recent project that simply wouldn't reach a decision when the Germans, Spaniards, Yanks, Swedes and Brits had all decided weeks before.

Ah, you've worked with them too. When I did, they thought it normal practice to sign a contract fairly quickly then negotiate it afterwards.

[TykeMerc]

The difference is that Italy is also incapable of strategic decision-making.

The EU is a bad example of PR. The EU Commission makes the decisions, not the elected MEPs. They just wave them through.

Well that's Italians in general, not just their poiliticians. I had the deep joy of having some Italian stakeholders on one recent project that simply wouldn't reach a decision when the Germans, Spaniards, Yanks, Swedes and Brits had all decided weeks before.

The EU Parliament has always been a bit of a farce, it wouldn't make a jot of difference what electoral system they have.

[Doggy Styles]

How is a mutual back scratching clique different in any way to our current Party political system? our current cliques are so fixed that they're even enforced by the whips offices and Party selection that prevent an MP from voting with their concience.

Our current system is every bit as clueless and corrupt as Italy or the EU so I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

The difference is that Italy is also incapable of strategic decision-making.

The EU is a bad example of PR. The EU Commission makes the decisions, not the elected MEPs. They just wave them through.

[TykeMerc]

The alternative, PR, is much worse. You end up with lots of mutual back-scratching cliques, and no one outside has much of a clue what is going on and little chance of changing it. It's a perfect recipe for corruption, and lack of accountability, as countries like Italy, and the EU, demonstrate.

How is a mutual back scratching clique different in any way to our current Party political system? our current cliques are so fixed that they're even enforced by the whips offices and Party selection that prevent an MP from voting with their concience.

Our current system is every bit as clueless and corrupt as Italy or the EU so I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

[OwlHoot]

That's the rub, in the UK we haven't had representative government for decades, once an MP has their seat they can happily ignore their electorate until the next election. With our "first past the post" system, Party politics and Whips 45% of the turnout (that's not the electorate as 50%+ don't bother to vote) will typically return a massive, unbeatable majority.

How many people in this country even appreciate that they are electing a representative and NOT a Party? Democracy in the UK is a total farce.

The alternative, PR, is much worse. You end up with lots of mutual back-scratching cliques, and no one outside has much of a clue what is going on and little chance of changing it. It's a perfect recipe for corruption, and lack of accountability, as countries like Italy, and the EU, demonstrate.

[cailin maith]

vote with your feet and go shopping!

Hmmmnn not sure that actually helps though. But I will keep it in mind.

PR tends to return much smaller majorities or coalition Governments, but at least it makes every vote significantly more relevant. Some people feel these are weaker, but at least they're representative and they might encourage Government by agreement rather than by dictate and opposition.

There are plenty of UK constituencies that always return an MP of one Party with a gigantic majority, these Safe Seats could put up a strategically shaved chimp and as long as it's wearing the right coloured rosette it will have the seat.

I see.

[TykeMerc]

In Ireland they have Proportional Representation - I guess that makes it a little more fair but to be honest, I have no idea.

PR tends to return much smaller majorities or coalition Governments, but at least it makes every vote significantly more relevant. Some people feel these are weaker, but at least they're representative and they might encourage Government by agreement rather than by dictate and opposition.

There are plenty of UK constituencies that always return an MP of one Party with a gigantic majority, these Safe Seats could put up a strategically shaved chimp and as long as it's wearing the right coloured rosette it will have the seat.

[DodgyAgent]

Ok - serious question, I don't trust any of those flipers now... I don't want to not vote (I think thats appalling) however I dont' want to vote for any of them, so what do I do?

vote with your feet and go shopping!

[cailin maith]

That's the rub, in the UK we haven't had representative government for decades, once an MP has their seat they can happily ignore their electorate until the next election. With our "first past the post" system, Party politics and Whips 45% of the turnout (that's not the electorate as 50%+ don't bother to vote) will typically return a massive, unbeatable majority.

How many people in this country even appreciate that they are electing a representative and NOT a Party? Democracy in the UK is a total farce.

In Ireland they have Proportional Representation - I guess that makes it a little more fair but to be honest, I have no idea.

[ASB]

What I really dislike is that councillors and MP's don't seem to canvass at all in this country - at home, they are always knocking on doors. Is it because I live in the city? Actually no, thats not right, before I moved to the city centre I lived in suburbia and they didn't canvass then either

Mrs ASB canvasses her entire electorate. Though I agree this is unusual.

[ASB]

Ok - serious question, I don't trust any of those flipers now... I don't want to not vote (I think thats appalling) however I dont' want to vote for any of them, so what do I do?

If you want to wind up the returning officer go to the polling station, collect you ballot paper but do not put in the box. This will ensure that the number oif papers retrieved from the box differs to that which were issued and will force the first recount....

[TykeMerc]

The expenses thing has been the end for me. You can't trust any of them and I agree the fringe parties are out... I'd vote green if the asses would sort out recycling bins for our block!

What I really dislike is that councillors and MP's don't seem to canvass at all in this country - at home, they are always knocking on doors. Is it because I live in the city? Actually no, thats not right, before I moved to the city centre I lived in suburbia and they didn't canvass then either

That's the rub, in the UK we haven't had representative government for decades, once an MP has their seat they can happily ignore their electorate until the next election. With our "first past the post" system, Party politics and Whips 45% of the turnout (that's not the electorate as 50%+ don't bother to vote) will typically return a massive, unbeatable majority.

How many people in this country even appreciate that they are electing a representative and NOT a Party? Democracy in the UK is a total farce.

[cailin maith]

Would drawing an extra box, ticking it and writing "AndyW" next to it do the trick?

If all of CUK did that - he might become a viable alternative.

[TheBigD]

What I really dislike is that councillors and MP's don't seem to canvass at all in this country - at home, they are always knocking on doors. Is it because I live in the city? Actually no, thats not right, before I moved to the city centre I lived in suburbia and they didn't canvass then either

That seems true, I've never seen any of them canvassing where I live. However, every MP is entitled to a £10,000 a year communications allowance for this sort of thing, which I beleive most of them claim for. Would be interesting to see a break down of exactly how that money is spent.

[TimberWolf]

Return a spoilt ballot as it's the nearest thing to "none of the above" that we're permitted.

Would drawing an extra box, ticking it and writing "AndyW" next to it do the trick?