Reply to: Intra Company Transfers

[Moscow Mule]

You are free to look for work in the EU and the EU workers are free to work in the UK. This is fair.

Indians,Australians,New Zealanders etc can work in the UK but you and I can not apply for contract jobs in India,Australia,New Zealand etc. That is unfair.

We do not ask the Australians to emigrate to the UK before they can do a 6 months contract so why do they expect us to emigrate to Australia to do a 6 months contract.
I DO NOT WISH TO EMIGRATE, I just want to work in Australia for the same reason that the Australians wish to work in europe.

Bunch of arse.

If you want to work in Australia / New Zealand you need a visa. As do those antipodeans who wish to work in the UK.

If you think you can't do a six month contract in Australia without emigrating, you haven't done enough research.

Don't know much about contracting in India, but the prospect doesn't fill me with glee.

[DodgyAgent]

Fair point.

It was only a matter of time before I eventually made one

[Rookie]

The context was hypothetical

Fair point.

[The Lone Gunman]

What?

You agreed with me.

[DodgyAgent]

Sas, I think that Dodgy stated it in an earlier post.

The context was hypothetical

[Rookie]

I don't recall calling anyone lazy. I'm just stating the truth.
Adapt or die - but don't moan or whinge it won't do you any good.

PS Working hard doesn't necessarily get you anywhere either. (Working smart usually does however). Deal with it. Who said the world was fair?

Sas, I think that Dodgy stated it in an earlier post.

[The Lone Gunman]

I'll provide an intelligent argument when I'm presented with one to respond to ...

I have not asked for an argument, I have asked you to answer a couple of very simple questions, questions you seem to want to avoid.

You say my doom scenario is hysterical and unintelligent yet you seem incapable of showing why! I will accept it is hysterical and unintelligent if you can tell me which industries all the displaced UK workers should retrain in so as not to face personal economic collapse like the manufacturing workers did.
I say there is nowhere to go hence my doom scenario.

Answer the question/s or stop posting antagonistic drivel!

[sasguru]

Why do you all think that be saying you don't like the way things are going that means "that I'm owed a living". Nobody is saying that and I certainly don't think it. I work very hard and I'm not one of those Lazy contractors that does just enough. I've worked many a free hours when required on my contracts because of staff shortages, budget cuts etc. I've also had to retrain because of Offshoring, and then been called back when its gone wrong to help put it right. That is not my idea of progress.

Also the more companies that move to other Countries the less tax we as a country get in, so unless we do something to encourage companies to stay here we are on one big sinking ship. This isn't about retraining, anyone can do that if they want to, but they need the opportunity and money to retrain.

I have no objection to people working here, or us working in there countries, in fact I'm one of the few people who couldn't care less about immigration, but do not stereotype the British workers as Lazy.

I don't recall calling anyone lazy. I'm just stating the truth.
Adapt or die - but don't moan or whinge it won't do you any good.

PS Working hard doesn't necessarily get you anywhere either. (Working smart usually does however). Deal with it. Who said the world was fair?

[BoredBloke]

Indeed.

Imagine the same argument applied to the miners 20 years ago ...

The problem is quality.

The stuff being imported in terms of coal was exactly the same as what our miners could produce. That is not the case here. The person who replaced me had exactly none of the skills to do the job. A colleague of mine saw his own job being advertised at less than half his daily rate (very niche skill set) 170 gbp a day. This to upgrade and implement a tool which nobody knows much about. HP charge their guy out at 1200 gbp a day to do much less than this.

[GardenGirl]

Why do you all think that be saying you don't like the way things are going that means "that I'm owed a living". Nobody is saying that and I certainly don't think it. I work very hard and I'm not one of those Lazy contractors that does just enough. I've worked many a free hours when required on my contracts because of staff shortages, budget cuts etc. I've also had to retrain because of Offshoring, and then been called back when its gone wrong to help put it right. That is not my idea of progress.

Also the more companies that move to other Countries the less tax we as a country get in, so unless we do something to encourage companies to stay here we are on one big sinking ship. This isn't about retraining, anyone can do that if they want to, but they need the opportunity and money to retrain.

I have no objection to people working here, or us working in there countries, in fact I'm one of the few people who couldn't care less about immigration, but do not stereotype the British workers as Lazy.

[sasguru]

I never expected that!!!!

What?

[The Lone Gunman]

Your doom scenario is correct and taking place now. Taking the country as a whole, apart from certain small centres of excellence, it doesn't create enough value to support its standard of living. That's what the recession is showing - market forces are forcing the adjustment.
That's why I say your assumption of maintaining living standards is doomed. In order to do that you have to create value on a sustainable basis and not enough people in the country are doing that.
A code monkey certainly doesn't create that much value - unless of course they are outstanding, but by definition most aren't.

I never expected that!!!!

[snaw]

No intelligent argument from you then? Thought not.

Your example is a fine one. The miners and other manufacturers were told to retrain into the service industries.

I have simply asked you to tell me what the service industry peeps should retrain into.
You do not seem to have an answer so, instead of my doom scenario, what will be the outcome if the trend for on and off shoring continues?
In what industries will all the displaced workers work?
How will the UK afford to live?

I'll provide an intelligent argument when I'm presented with one to respond to ...

[sasguru]

I proposed a doom scenarion. Far fetched maybe, but that was my proposal. The question/s are what jobs are safe enough for the UK economy to avoid that doom scenario.

Without maintaing lifestyles my doom scenario kicks in.
Just how many doctors, lawyers and teachers can the UK sustain?
Doesnt help the UK if they go abroad and they still have to compete with the people who took their job in the first place.
What new business meets the criteria stated in the first place?
The world only needs so many shelf stackers too.

Your doom scenario is correct and taking place now. Taking the country as a whole, apart from certain small centres of excellence, it doesn't create enough value to support its standard of living. That's what the recession is showing - market forces are forcing the adjustment.
That's why I say your assumption of maintaining living standards is doomed. In order to do that you have to create value on a sustainable basis and not enough people in the country are doing that.
A code monkey certainly doesn't create that much value - unless of course they are outstanding, but by definition most aren't.

[The Lone Gunman]

Indeed.

Imagine the same argument applied to the miners 20 years ago ...

No intelligent argument from you then? Thought not.

Your example is a fine one. The miners and other manufacturers were told to retrain into the service industries.

I have simply asked you to tell me what the service industry peeps should retrain into.
You do not seem to have an answer so, instead of my doom scenario, what will be the outcome if the trend for on and off shoring continues?
In what industries will all the displaced workers work?
How will the UK afford to live?