Reply to: Recruitment Consultants, discuss.

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy and I have a had a few run ins a whiles back on this board. I know his name, his company.
However as much as I think he is an idiot, I would never start throwing peoples real names around a message board unless he chose to reveal it.
I will confirm that
a) He is a jackass.
b) He owns his own recruitment company.

That's me OK

[andrew159753]

Dodgy and I have a had a few run ins a whiles back on this board. I know his name, his company.
However as much as I think he is an idiot, I would never start throwing peoples real names around a message board unless he chose to reveal it.
I will confirm that
a) He is a jackass.
b) He owns his own recruitment company.

[AlfredJPruffock]

It means nothing to you DA because you are too stupid to understand it. Let me go very slowly for you - this perfect market place that you so extol is the same market place that gave us 20 bobbing chinamen in Morcambe bay. It gives us prisons brimming to overflowing, ASBOs, social disorder, an economic underclass. The free market is great for selling spuds or icecreams. Add in the human factor my muppet friend and the world is a lot more complicated. Your simplistic greed may one day come to haunt you.

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.

Leo Tolstoy

[The Lone Gunman]

It means nothing to you DA because you are too stupid to understand it. Let me go very slowly for you - this perfect market place that you so extol is the same market place that gave us 20 bobbing chinamen in Morcambe bay. It gives us prisons brimming to overflowing, ASBOs, social disorder, an economic underclass. The free market is great for selling spuds or icecreams. Add in the human factor my muppet friend and the world is a lot more complicated. Your simplistic greed may one day come to haunt you.

No mate those chaps floating around Morecambe Bay were a direct result of an experiment in socialism that condemned them and their families to a life of dire poverty, a life so dire that they were willing to risk borrowing from gangsters, their families savings and their own lives to escape it.
Our prisons overflowing, ASBOs and social disorder are direct results of successive Governments trying to buy votes by selling the idle masses on the idea of rights without responsibilities and the bleeding hearts getting them reduced sentences by pretending it wasnt their fault in the first place.

[DodgyAgent]

It means nothing to you DA because you are too stupid to understand it. Let me go very slowly for you - this perfect market place that you so extol is the same market place that gave us 20 bobbing chinamen in Morcambe bay. It gives us prisons brimming to overflowing, ASBOs, social disorder, an economic underclass. The free market is great for selling spuds or icecreams. Add in the human factor my muppet friend and the world is a lot more complicated. Your simplistic greed may one day come to haunt you.

What has the market got to do with AsBOs, economic underclass and social disorder? surely we would have all these anyway in a command socialist/communist society? We can all quote anecdotal instances for anything to try and disprove an argument. I am a bit stupid I know, but it may be useful for you to apply your logic, with examples, to how you think our market can be organised better.

[ratewhore]

Jabber this is a list of meaningless cliches with no explanation, explain

I didn't get it either

[Jabberwocky]

Jabber this is a list of meaningless cliches with no explanation, explain

It means nothing to you DA because you are too stupid to understand it. Let me go very slowly for you - this perfect market place that you so extol is the same market place that gave us 20 bobbing chinamen in Morcambe bay. It gives us prisons brimming to overflowing, ASBOs, social disorder, an economic underclass. The free market is great for selling spuds or icecreams. Add in the human factor my muppet friend and the world is a lot more complicated. Your simplistic greed may one day come to haunt you.

[DodgyAgent]

It's a nice long post DA, however being verbose makes you confused rather than profound. Who are the beneficiaries of a free market my dear boy ? Is it those who sell the flesh or those who eat it ? The "Free" market exaggerates disparity, creates false gods, encourages the shyster, confuses competition with corruption and rewards exploitation. You have been blinkered by a system that personally rewards you, and as such you can see nothing but your own avarice.

Jabber this is a list of meaningless cliches with no explanation, explain

[Jabberwocky]

It's a nice long post DA, however being verbose makes you confused rather than profound. Who are the beneficiaries of a free market my dear boy ? Is it those who sell the flesh or those who eat it ? The "Free" market exaggerates disparity, creates false gods, encourages the shyster, confuses competition with corruption and rewards exploitation. You have been blinkered by a system that personally rewards you, and as such you can see nothing but your own avarice.

[DodgyAgent]

Oh Dear Oh Dear

God help us! If you're attitude is anything to go by then trade unions would never have been invented and employees would all be working for peanuts in some dingy hole for 18 hours each day with no rights. What you've said is as meaningless as saying there's no point in curing cancer because it keeps the population down and therefore that's the way things are meant to be.

Contractors don't like the recruitment model, as it happens, but most are too ignorant to see what the causes are, or else they are too terrified or too lazy to do anything about it. It only takes a few to turn things around and the rest of the sheep will follow on.

That's how all progress is made.

All I'm suggesting is that the recruitment model should reflect what the employment industry is meant to do and is in business for which it fails to do all too often - provide the best flexible staff for real roles as the law dictates. If the market is disorting this fundamental principle, then the market is at fault and it's up to those affected to do something to rectify it.

The market is the market which is flawed at the best of times, not the inalienable hand of God. It has it's uses but is no more perfect that the weather but we don't go out in the rain without an umbrella do we? Plus the market is operated and controlled by highly flawed human beings. Why do you think the economy along with everything else is part of a political agenda?

Oh dear. Let us look at this:

Firstly, you are right about trade Unions. They did indeed spring up as a result of employers exploiting workers, in other words there was a market for them, a much needed one at that. But just to show you what I mean, Unions have become an entity of their own. They have not changed their ways despite the fact that labour markets are so much more flexible. Employers are no longer the only employers in town, and they now have to devote huge amounts of enrgy and resources to find and retain workers. Unions are still trying to rail against employers and "protect" workers when what they are in fact achieving is encouraging companies to relocate elsewhere. These Unions should be encouraging employers to invest more in training and lobbying the government to either reduce taxes or get better value for money for their tax revenues.

Secondly I am not sure contractors will be flattered by your gut wrenching patronising assumption that they are a poor down trodded terrified lot. They are quite the opposite. They are a bunch of cocky, confident individuals who have taken their destinies into their own hands (as well as other unmentiuonables ) to provide services and to work on their own terms. They enjoy high incomes, they carry little responsibility for the outcome of their work and they can work where and when they want to.
They dont need your protection, nor do they need twits like you to tell them that they are idiots (thats for twits like me to tell them).

It is the agents that are slaves to their work, slaves to targets, slaves to the P45 hanging by a string over their heads (sorry MSB). It is the agents who have to rely upon the goodwill of the contractors.. "will he take the job or wont he?" I am not saying agents need help or protection, we dont.
all the contractor needs to do is to work the market and the agents to his advantage. What he doesnt need is some state (or other) financed nanny to come along and tell the market how it should work. Atsco only exists because agencies use their membership as a sales tool, it does not exist for the protection of contractors.

Remember that many of the most successful agencies have been created by "terrified" contractors. Contractors are bound to whinge (thjough not as much as you), especially about agencies. Many hate agencies and a few (stupid ones) are prepared to cut their own noses to spite the agencies; but the system works. It is not healthcare, it is not a life or death profession employing disadvantaged people. It is not perfect, but like most things the market is closer to perfection than human control ever is.

[Denny]

On the contrary, the recruitment model is driven entirely by the market. If clients and contractors didnt like it, it would simply not exist:

God help us! If you're attitude is anything to go by then trade unions would never have been invented and employees would all be working for peanuts in some dingy hole for 18 hours each day with no rights. What you've said is as meaningless as saying there's no point in curing cancer because it keeps the population down and therefore that's the way things are meant to be.

Contractors don't like the recruitment model, as it happens, but most are too ignorant to see what the causes are, or else they are too terrified or too lazy to do anything about it. It only takes a few to turn things around and the rest of the sheep will follow on.

That's how all progress is made.

All I'm suggesting is that the recruitment model should reflect what the employment industry is meant to do and is in business for which it fails to do all too often - provide the best flexible staff for real roles as the law dictates. If the market is disorting this fundamental principle, then the market is at fault and it's up to those affected to do something to rectify it.

The market is the market which is flawed at the best of times, not the inalienable hand of God. It has it's uses but is no more perfect that the weather but we don't go out in the rain without an umbrella do we? Plus the market is operated and controlled by highly flawed human beings. Why do you think the economy along with everything else is part of a political agenda?

[reformation]

I will give you a clue, it is one of these:

http://www.jobserve.com/RecruiterDirectory.aspx

Hysterical...

[DodgyAgent]

Clue

;-) well at least tell us who you work for.

Queensbury rules?

I will give you a clue, it is one of these:

http://www.jobserve.com/RecruiterDirectory.aspx

[threaded]

Nah, Sainsburys rules

[reformation]

This board just aint big enough for two agents

;-) well at least tell us who you work for.

Queensbury rules?