Reply to: Jury Service

[Gonzo]

I'm going to request a deferral - let's see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

I don't think that you will find them unreasonable - I am sure that they will let you defer.

I deferred my first summons and it turned out that I was on the bench for that fortnight. I then ended up doing my jury service while I was in a contract. d'oh.

The distance between the court and your client makes a difference on this, but you would not necessarily be at the court all day, every day, for the period of your service and you would almost certainly have time to call in at the client for part of the day if you are really that critical to the project.

One bloke on the juror panel while I was there was in the middle of a pub/restaurant refit which he couldn't abandon for two weeks because the business was closed while he was doing it.

He would go in to work for a few hours at stupid o'clock, do a couple of hours, then go to the court, wait until lunchtime to find out that he wasn't needed that day, then go back to work. To add insult to injury, he didn't get put on a case the whole time he was there.

But I agree with what the others have said. It is your civic duty so shut up and do it and be thankful that you don't live in a society where the authorities can lock you up without a trial.

[TykeMerc]

As a contractor my client is not my employer. The client can terminate my contract at any time and doesn't need to give a good reason (1 weeks' notice is required - but that might just be "here's 1 weeks' money, please don't come back"). Things are really stretched where I'm at. Even 2 weeks off would leave the team really up against it, and I'm sure there are plenty off benchers who would jump at the chance of taking over my gig whilst I'm off doing my public duty.

I'm going to request a deferral - let's see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

The really frustrating thing about this sort of issue is it's not possible for those of us with the time (benched, working on plan B, taking time off etc) to volunteer the time so that we don't get called at a less convenient time like you have.

Hopefully you can defer your duty, point out the repercussions if you're forced to attend, do it rationally, truthfully and unemotionally.

[WetBehindTheEars]

As for the employer getting rid of him, due to his abscence, I don't know whether it is feasible but if upon his return, he was out of a job, then could he not sue the employer for contract breach or somesuch ?

It could even be argued that if the employer terminated his employment due to jury service, then that itself is contempt of court, and they'd be in pretty big trouble (and quite rightly too).

As a contractor my client is not my employer. The client can terminate my contract at any time and doesn't need to give a good reason (1 weeks' notice is required - but that might just be "here's 1 weeks' money, please don't come back"). Things are really stretched where I'm at. Even 2 weeks off would leave the team really up against it, and I'm sure there are plenty off benchers who would jump at the chance of taking over my gig whilst I'm off doing my public duty.

I'm going to request a deferral - let's see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

[Board Game Geek]

As a side issue, what would you do if you contract ended suddenly with the prospect of beening benched for months? Your issue seems to be with loosing income.

His issues revolve around losing income, and fear of losing his job because his employer may not be sympathetic to his needs.

The first is a natural concern, since if you don't work, then you don't get paid. There are remedies to this, such as careful planning to build up a warchest, PCG jury insurance, or deferring the 1st jury service.

As for the employer getting rid of him, due to his abscence, I don't know whether it is feasible but if upon his return, he was out of a job, then could he not sue the employer for contract breach or somesuch ?

It could even be argued that if the employer terminated his employment due to jury service, then that itself is contempt of court, and they'd be in pretty big trouble (and quite rightly too).

The truth of the matter is, is that there is never a good time to do jury service, since it does impinge on people's working routines, and can be financially painful.

However, it is a public duty, and one of the responsibilities we accept as UK citizens.

There are not many opportunities for us to "pay something back" to society and the law system in particular, so don't whinge, be proud and do your duty.

Yes it may inconvenience you, but it may help convict a scrote who hit and run a toddler on a bike, and for that, ther family will be grateful.

[bfg]

Been there, Done that

There are instructions on the summons on how to request a deferment, as an earlier post said. In your circumstance you will almost certainly get it, my wife and I both did. You'll get another summons in the next few months, in my case they said that they would not ask again, she had to go a couple of years later.

If at all possible I would have done the jury service, I did it once years ago.

It is a vital part of our justice system and helps ensure that justice is done rather than adherence to a Judge's strict interpretation of the letter of the law.

[gingerjedi]

I'm sure this as been mentioned before but I believe you're entitled to defer it once, just accept it the next time the fickle finger of fate points your way.

[AtW]

My worry is loss of contract.

Talk to them, I am not sure if the law is good enough to protect you from losing gig, but surely if you work in a reasonable company then they would be fairly sympathetic? It's like you are in the Territorial Army and suddenly you are called up to be deployed to Iraq for 6 months, now that's taking the piss for sure!

You probably don't know what case you are called up for - most likely it will be fairly quick, so it might not take long time and consequently your client won't be too bothered (they won't pay you for that time for sure, so it's like you were ill or something).

[WetBehindTheEars]

We've strayed away from my original question and some of my posts were not 100% serious.

Loss of income is not my biggest worry - although I do think it is hugely unfair and an outrage.

My worry is loss of contract. It's a very real fear and I'd say it would be very likely the client would look elsewhere. Too late for me I guess, but would insurance pay out for loss of contract?

If I lost my contract due to some other reason then I'd look for another one. If I couldn't find one PDQ then my situation would force me to go back permie or to look for work outside IT. I don't have provisions for much tme off. That is what I am working towards. I am being sensible with my money, but I'm new to this. Try and think back to when you started out. I'm working very hard to build up a sustainable business.

My current gig is great - good rate, 10 minutes from home, nice office, and interesting work. I worked hard to get it (3 interviews) why should that be taken away from me.

[AtW]

You mean I am not the only one?

Yes you are.

[zara_backdog]

Careful here or you might get accused of being one of my fembots...

You mean I am not the only one?

[AtW]

Can't believe you mean that! I have to agree with ATW () on his reply there.

Careful here or you might get accused of being one of my fembots...

[zara_backdog]

Well I think it sucks. Why not select those people who want (can afford) to do it and leave the rest of us to get on with trying to eke out a living.

Can't believe you mean that! I have to agree with ATW () on his reply there.

I think the point is for us contractors is to take out the correct insurance and hope the trial does not go on for to long ( so you do not lose the contract you are in which would be my main worry) -settiing this up now!

As a side issue, what would you do if you contract ended suddenly with the prospect of beening benched for months? Your issue seems to be with loosing income.

[BrilloPad]

Well I think it sucks. Why not select those people who want (can afford) to do it and leave the rest of us to get on with trying to eke out a living.

Who can afford to do jury service? There cannot be many around.

[AtW]

Well I think it sucks. Why not select those people who want (can afford) to do it and leave the rest of us to get on with trying to eke out a living.

It won't be representative sample then - you'd probably get very large propotion of unemployed or on the dole deciding whether you (much better paid contractor) is guilty or not. Would you have liked that to happen?

[WetBehindTheEars]

Well I think it sucks. Why not select those people who want (can afford) to do it and leave the rest of us to get on with trying to eke out a living.