Reply to: IPCC tries to muzzle bad news.

[TykeMerc]

Here's the Mash's take on this sort of thing .......

[AtW]

Weren't 7 of those 9 shots into DeMenezes head ?

Yes and how often does these things happen in this country?

In Russia in the same year "similar" incident happened in underground - police officer stopped guy who looked foreign (non-white) and then pulled his gun and shot him in the face there and then. Ok, he got arrested and convicted and when relatives asked for compensation... then Russian Home Office said that the moment police officer shot that guy in the face he acted illegally and thus stopped being a police officer, so Home Office is not responsible for his actions, no effing joke!

That said this is not Russia and any police action that caused harm should be investigated which is happening, it is just totally retarded to jump to conclusions on the basis of actions of a few individuals from otherwise very good (in my opinion) police force.

[Cyberman]

In the year when De'Menezes was unfortunately shot dead in London the whole UK police made I believe 9 (nine) shots from weapons in the whole year.

So when looking at this tragic incident one must bear in mind that shouting "police is doing bloody murder on the streets" should be kept in context of how police acts in other countries, not France or Germany as differences are too minor to notice, but say Russia - where police is armed with assault rifles (!) on normal days.

Weren't 7 of those 9 shots into DeMenezes head ?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I see you are as ignorant as ever. This law:

The rest of your post is a puerile irrelevance to the debate.

But interestingly, the same points were made in tonight's Newsnight - you thick Tory automaton.

[AtW]

True, but can they afford the bullets

Yes plenty - that's cheap resource in Russia, the only thing cheaper is human life

[ASB]

But say Russia - where police is armed with assault rifles (!) on normal days.

True, but can they afford the bullets

[AtW]

The logic according to AtWat...."country A has 10 murders, country B has 5 murders - so country B has no business pointing out that 5 murders is a bad thing because country A has more."

In the year when De'Menezes was unfortunately shot dead in London the whole UK police made I believe 9 (nine) shots from weapons in the whole year.

So when looking at this tragic incident one must bear in mind that shouting "police is doing bloody murder on the streets" should be kept in context of how police acts in other countries, not France or Germany as differences are too minor to notice, but say Russia - where police is armed with assault rifles (!) on normal days.

[AtW]

The question is, is the behaviour that we think we saw those two men use exceptional and not desired by the force, or is it policy?

The answer to can be found only after investigation which is taking place now. Posting video out of context may prejudice or make harder potential trial of that policeman for manslaughter.

Have the police and the goverment moved from the idea of managing protest to the idea of suppressing it? The latter is not acceptable in our country, no matter how common it might be in others.

I agree it's not acceptable, however clearly since only 2 policemen were involved in things like this out of how many thousands present there, it is clear that they hand no policy to beat the tulip of demostrators.

[HairyArsedBloke]

The question is not, did the police employ, and deploy, a couple of thugs at the G20 demo. The question is, is the behaviour that we think we saw those two men use exceptional and not desired by the force, or is it policy?

Have the police and the goverment moved from the idea of managing protest to the idea of suppressing it? The latter is not acceptable in our country, no matter how common it might be in others.

Yes

[PM-Junkie]

The question is not, did the police employ, and deploy, a couple of thugs at the G20 demo. The question is, is the behaviour that we think we saw those two men use exceptional and not desired by the force, or is it policy?

Have the police and the goverment moved from the idea of managing protest to the idea of suppressing it? The latter is not acceptable in our country, no matter how common it might be in others.

I think you are banging your head against a brick wall here.

The logic according to AtWat...."country A has 10 murders, country B has 5 murders - so country B has no business pointing out that 5 murders is a bad thing because country A has more."

But then since he is an expert in all things, you probably have no business disagreeing with him in the first place

[expat]

...the reason you are an idiot is because you derive conclusion about whole police force on the basis of one or two examples during this big demo. Both are being under investigation - justice takes time and will be served when ready, not when lynch mob shouts for it.

The question is not, did the police employ, and deploy, a couple of thugs at the G20 demo. The question is, is the behaviour that we think we saw those two men use exceptional and not desired by the force, or is it policy?

Have the police and the goverment moved from the idea of managing protest to the idea of suppressing it? The latter is not acceptable in our country, no matter how common it might be in others.

[AtW]

How would you know that I have "no clue how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way", since I have never commented on "how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way"?

You don't have a clue because (using simple analogy here so that you could understand) when you see people dieing from plague on some 3rd world country one does not comment on light flue in some more developed country more than this light flue deserves.

But OK, I'll gve you the premise that I have no clue on that. So what? Does that make me an idiot? How so?

The reason you are an idiot is not even the fact that police in this country is pretty damn perfect compared with countries where police (on orders from Govt) abuse powers by beating the heck out of peaceful demostrators, no this could be put down to lack of experience of outside world, the reason you are an idiot is because you derive conclusion about whole police force on the basis of one or two examples during this big demo. Both are being under investigation - justice takes time and will be served when ready, not when lynch mob shouts for it.

[expat]

If you say you don't support Labour then fine, I'll take your word for it.

It does not change my basic premise however that you are an idiot on the grounds of you having no clue how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way.

How would you know that I have "no clue how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way", since I have never commented on "how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way"?

But OK, I'll gve you the premise that I have no clue on that. So what? Does that make me an idiot? How so? I don't think that what other police do has anything to do with whether our police's actions are right or wrong. You do think that: so argue it.

[AtW]

Is that what you think you have seen? Should have gone to Specsavers

If you say you don't support Labour then fine, I'll take your word for it.

It does not change my basic premise however that you are an idiot on the grounds of you having no clue how policing is done in countries where police (and the state) does abuse its powers in a very real way.

[expat]

The ****ing irony is in that expat (from what I have seen) supports Labour Party, not me

Is that what you think you have seen? Should have gone to Specsavers