Itecs Belgium

[fintz69]

Setting up a SPRL

Hi Nodric, Stormek, CyranoB

Could you PM the details of the accountants you've used?
I signed up for ITECS 2 months ago, but after seeing what is happening with Connexion I want to stay away from ManCos and go "solo"

I've just joined this forum and it seems that I don't have permissions to do PMs.

Thanks very much

[stormek]

Run run run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me I'm the Belgian taxing man! (ok I tried to make it rhyme )

Hi nodric! Can you PM me the accountant you've used? I've just registered to this forum and I can't send you any PM

Many thanks.

<mod note>New users are not given many rights on the forum due to past abuse and spam. I have upgraded your account though so you will now be able to use the PM system./mod note>

[nodric]

Hi:

After the ICC fiasco I signed up with ITECs. However something in the projections doesn't seem right.

Under their scheme you are paid a Belgian salary + COLA (if nonresident status) and are a Belgian employee.

The remainder of your income is invested in shares in an offshore company which pays monthly dividends (offshore). When we discussed the details of the scheme it was claimed that it was agreed with the BTA that the dividends would be taxed at 12%.

However, in the projections I see that the 12% is levied on the gross Belgian salary (including COLA).

I am on "chomage economique" at the moment (taking extra holidays because of the parlous state of work on the current project I am on). I can see a situation developing where there is no dividend but I am still taxed at 12% of my gross Belgian salary .

This seems wrong! wrong! wrong! I have asked the client to hold all payments to ITECs until it is sorted out.

ITECS initial response is that this (12% tax on gross Belgian) is what is agreed with the BTA. I asked for a proper payslip (not the "Income statement") that shows all the SS and tax payments - ITECS response is that following the recent PW takeover they are still working with a firm of Belgian accountants to get this stuff in place. I smell a rat but perhaps I am being too suspicious.

So my questions to the forum are:

Has has anyone else worked under this kind of agreement with ITECS before?

Did the "dividend tax" in fact go to the BTA?

Run run run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me I'm the Belgian taxing man! (ok I tried to make it rhyme )

Any system/scheme/avoidance, relies on the other/dividend funds being in someone else's name otherwise, it is Worldwide income and must be declared wherever you pay tax, at least while you live in one of the main EU countries.

Remember in Belgium even if you are a 'non-resident' you still need to register with LIMOSA (Belgian Social Security by any other name) which, gets you a local tax return and firmly on the radar. You need to make sure that whatever you are doing will not catch you out down the line, assuming you remain in Belgium for any length of time. Of course if you intend to take the money and run then none of this is relevant But, the fact you asked sort of suggests this is not on your mind

If ITECs cannot give more explanatory explanation of how all this works in your 'individual' circumstances then walk away.

Avoid using any accountants linked to the ManCo as you need personal and impartial advice based on your specific circumstances.

[surfer]

ITECs dividend solution

Hi:

After the ICC fiasco I signed up with ITECs. However something in the projections doesn't seem right.

Under their scheme you are paid a Belgian salary + COLA (if nonresident status) and are a Belgian employee.

The remainder of your income is invested in shares in an offshore company which pays monthly dividends (offshore). When we discussed the details of the scheme it was claimed that it was agreed with the BTA that the dividends would be taxed at 12%.

However, in the projections I see that the 12% is levied on the gross Belgian salary (including COLA).

I am on "chomage economique" at the moment (taking extra holidays because of the parlous state of work on the current project I am on). I can see a situation developing where there is no dividend but I am still taxed at 12% of my gross Belgian salary .

This seems wrong! wrong! wrong! I have asked the client to hold all payments to ITECs until it is sorted out.

ITECS initial response is that this (12% tax on gross Belgian) is what is agreed with the BTA. I asked for a proper payslip (not the "Income statement") that shows all the SS and tax payments - ITECS response is that following the recent PW takeover they are still working with a firm of Belgian accountants to get this stuff in place. I smell a rat but perhaps I am being too suspicious.

So my questions to the forum are:

Has has anyone else worked under this kind of agreement with ITECS before?

Did the "dividend tax" in fact go to the BTA?

[nodric]

[QUOTE=Brussels Slumdog;825621]

If you have a degree and it is really short term go Freelance but, it if goes over a year get a Company formed (you can back date 6 months Freelance into the Company structure) or you will be crucified for Social Security and tax.

What is your advice if I usually work 20% in Belgium and 80% UK and rest of Europe. What happens if say I work june-november 2009 in Belgium Jan-June
2010 UK and July 2010-Nov 2010 Switzerland and back to Belgium in December 2010. As my wife is Belgian I assume that I am resident here.
I work wherever a good contract comes up and as I am not trilingual I receive
less offers in Belgium.

It comes down to your tax residency which, can be claimed as being your centre of economic interest. i.e. Where your house/family/main assets are.

You still have to watch the 183 days rule for being considered resident for tax but, if only 20% of your time is in Belgium then that will never apply. You should technically still tell LIMOSA but, most don't and most wouldn't even register or tell anyone as the work is average of less than 5 days a month so not a requirement (LIMOSA rules).

However, if your centre of economic interest is Belgium (wife etc) then this is where you should pay your taxes but, if you are 183 days say in the UK then you are tax resident there and all dues and demands should be declared there including the foreign source income earned in Belgium

All this of course assumes you are self employed. If you use a company structure then you get into sending employees overseas complexities. e.g. If you send an employee on an overseas mission that is temporary then no one tells anyone and they get paid in their home country etc. But, if that mission exceeds 183 days and/or in Belgium 5 days a month then, you have to pay their SS and Tax in the overseas country as they have become tax resident.

I am not a tax lawyer or accountant so seek professional advice from someone who is

Hope that helps a bit.

[nodric]

nodric, I'm looking for a good Belgian accountant, maybe we could talk about out it by PM?

PM me or send me email and I'll put you in touch with a first class firm who look after me and about 40 other ex Man Co accountant clients.

[Turion]

Probably won't as the last I heard he's retired and living in the South of France. He could do what he did as he was never officially resident in these countries, so was under the taxmans radar. He never registered with the authorities. He was a short termer also, so moved about. The only time he paid tax was when working in the UK as he never would touch any of the off-shore schemes here (don't shiite in your own back yard I s'pose).

[Brussels Slumdog]

[QUOTE=Turion;825684]For short term contracts is it not better to use UK ltd co, or fly under the radar completely and unload all the money off-shore. Knew a guy who worked in Brussels 9 months and boasted of a 98% retention. He stayed in hotels, didn't open bank account, register or anything silly like that. Seems the way to go, but probably more tricky to do now

This is a good strategy for a country where you have a good once in a life time opportunity like in the Caribbean where you will never have the chance for another contract.
Who knows he may have another offer in Belgium. And then?

[Turion]

For short term contracts is it not better to use UK ltd co, or fly under the radar completely and unload all the money off-shore. Knew a guy who worked in Brussels 9 months and boasted of a 98% retention. He stayed in hotels, didn't open bank account, register or anything silly like that. Seems the way to go, but probably more tricky to do now.

[Brussels Slumdog]

[QUOTE=nodric;825469]If you have a degree and it is really short term go Freelance but, it if goes over a year get a Company formed (you can back date 6 months Freelance into the Company structure) or you will be crucified for Social Security and tax.

What is your advice if I usually work 20% in Belgium and 80% UK and rest of Europe. What happens if say I work june-november 2009 in Belgium Jan-June
2010 UK and July 2010-Nov 2010 Switzerland and back to Belgium in December 2010. As my wife is Belgian I assume that I am resident here.
I work wherever a good contract comes up and as I am not trilingual I receive
less offers in Belgium.

[CyranoB]

nodric, I'm looking for a good Belgian accountant, maybe we could talk about out it by PM?

[nodric]

ITECS change their system and were sold by their original founder some months ago. Their system of paying NI back in the UK and giving you TCN (Third Country National) or non resident status has ended. You now basically are an employee paying all dues and demands associated with them as well as paying the employer costs for them employing you. Add to that fees and it is a very expensive way to work.

With all the fuss over Conx and other split income systems (read thread Here) the only real way to be safe and tax efficient is by having a local Ltd company equivalent but, that can be expensive and complex if the contract is short term. Some of my posts in the Conx thread talk about some possible options.

ITECS seems legal for now but retention is about 60% and in some cases worse! If you have a degree and it is really short term go Freelance but, it if goes over a year get a Company formed (you can back date 6 months Freelance into the Company structure) or you will be crucified for Social Security and tax.

If the contract is less than a year you will be gone before the tax return arrives in the post

[Brussels Slumdog]

Looking for management/payroll company

I have used ITECS in the Netherlands,Germany and for a 3 month gig in Belgium 2006. They seemed a little more honest than most of the bunch offering a split payment solution in Belgium.
Contracting in UK is like riding a bike down hill with the wind behind you.
Netherlands and Switzerland is like riding a bike with no wind.
Belgium is like riding a bike up hill blind folded with the wind in your face.
What are the damm rules in Belgium. Everyone claims to have an agreement with BTA and they all charge about 5 times more than my UK payroll company,to do exactly the same thing. Collect money and pay into my bank.
In the Netherlands the 30% ruling is for everyone.
Until Belgium comes up with a 25-30% ruling for everyone I prefer to work anywhere else but Belgium .

[CyranoB]

Same for me. I've been with them for 6 years, they called me in december to tell me I wouldn't get my non residant status renewed as BTA didn't accept this anymore from 1st Jan for ppl who stayed more than 3 years in Belgium. They then called me back in Jan to tell me it was finished even for ppl who stayed less than 3 years, and that my only solution were belgian residant salary plus dividents taxed in Belgium or setup a belgian company.

As I was in the process to setup a belgian company, I went to an accountant that found their (previous) scheme dodgy, but also told me that they could also have had an agreement with the BTA as this is Belgium after all and with a good tax layer you can allways find loopholes and agreements! He also said that after all Connexion who made way worst things seems to have find an agreement with BTA for 2007 and 2008. But still advised me to be carefull about possible penalties as it seems to start happening for Connexion contractors. He also had an interresting remark: Belgium needs foreigner IT contractors really bad and BTA is aware of this and that's why arrengments might be possible... Plus maybe the tax inspectors will just get tired of the amount of work required to track and fine all these ppl, and will eventually give up and find an easier prey, as he saw it happening in the past in other cases!

I called back Itecs who said there was indeed a general crackdown on management companies, but also reassured me that the BTA were aware of their setup and approuved it untill end of last year the same way they're approuving their new setup.

So basically I think I'll wait a little bit, and if Itecs is proven right (no pelnatly) I'll setup a Belgian company as this is basically tax wise the only sane solution left. If the taxman comes after me I'll just pickup my stuff and leave...

[jenever]

Anyone else in sunny (well, it is today) Belgium who use Itecs?

I had a call on Friday to say that the Belgian Tax Authority had changed the rules and no longer recognizes the non tax-resident status of contractors.

Reading between the lines (there were some dodges, but I think their business model has now gone the way of the dodo) it appears full tax will need to be paid from Jan 1 2009.

This is apparently a crackdown on all companies using this loophole, but that Itecs had been judged to have behaved legally in the past so there was no retrospective tax due, unlike some of the other companies.

I'm not sure what to do as I do not mind complying with the new rules (ok, it hurts but I made hay while the sun shone), yet a local accountant may be a better option.

So, anyone else with Itecs, and does anyone trade in another manner?

Regards to all,

Jenever