Reply to: scrum masters

[local oaf]

A developer role doing the rounds today specifies:

Candidates need to have excellent Agile experience which includes Pair Programming to be considered

Seriously why exclude 80% of applicants for something that is effectively a project management methodology? I don't care about "stand up meetings", "sprints", "pair programming" etc... as long as the requirements and timeframe are realistic for my tasks I will get job done.

It really me as I was a perfect fit for the *actual* skills they required. I'd like to at least be in with a shot.

[swamp]

Yes, they took risks (something that is anathema today).

It wasn't a pissing contest IMO. It was, and remains, mankinds' finest acheivement.

Those chaps knew how to do things, and do them right. It's an art we have lost.

We are bogged down and hog-tied by regulations and methodologies - the killers of creativity and originality.

A bit like the Roman empire in its heyday. When it became Byzantium the empire became bogged down in red tape and bureaucracy, and eventually faded away. Maybe our modern societies are destined to go the same route?

[Mich the Tester]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A830774
"Project Apollo was born out of the cold war that existed between the two 'superpowers' the USA and the USSR, after the conclusion of the Second World War."
and
"When United States President John F Kennedy issued his challenge to American industry that they '...should send a man to the moon and return him safely to earth, before this decade is out', he effectively created a finish line to the 'space race' that would establish the winner at the pinnacle of world technological achievement in the eyes of the world."

I stand by my use of the word paraphrase.

Have you got a reference re the cost of Lipstick?

Is this (use of) parenthesis (more) to your liking?

For the price of saving the banks we could probably have restarted the Apollo programme in time to hold the 2012 Olympics on the moon.

[Drewster]

More parenthesis please.

Also, to 'paraphrase' does not mean to twist the meaning of a statement so that it fits your agenda. Kennedy said no such thing.

The lipstick figure is correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A830774
"Project Apollo was born out of the cold war that existed between the two 'superpowers' the USA and the USSR, after the conclusion of the Second World War."
and
"When United States President John F Kennedy issued his challenge to American industry that they '...should send a man to the moon and return him safely to earth, before this decade is out', he effectively created a finish line to the 'space race' that would establish the winner at the pinnacle of world technological achievement in the eyes of the world."

I stand by my use of the word paraphrase.

Have you got a reference re the cost of Lipstick?

Is this (use of) parenthesis (more) to your liking?

[Mich the Tester]

Actually, check the facts.

The amount of money spent was comparatively tiny. More money was spent in the USA by women buying lipstick in the same period.

Yes, they took risks (something that is anathema today).

It wasn't a pissing contest IMO. It was, and remains, mankinds' finest acheivement.

Those chaps knew how to do things, and do them right. It's an art we have lost.

We are bogged down and hog-tied by regulations and methodologies - the killers of creativity and originality.

NASA has lost more lives since they introduced bullshyte methodologies than they did in the pioneering days.

The combination of top quality technical and scientific knowledge with a bit of money and a few brave people with the guts to try it out has produced pretty much every major technical advance that's made the modern world.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have a large testing budget though.

[Zippy]

Amazing how NASA put men on the moon without a single methodology.

NASA is staffed by proper engineers. Knowing how to do it right, adapt and improvise is hardwired into them.
Quite Agile really

[bogeyman]

I will take your word for that - although 25.4 billion dollars sounds like a lot of lipstick!



Well I "thought" it was because Kennedy said (I paraphrase) "We will beat those dam Ruskies and go to the moon before 1970"

Although I (actually) wouldn't argue too much about:
Mankinds greatest achievement (moot but defendable)
and your (implied) view about risk, methodologies etc.

I do "defend" (and promote) good process/procedures/do it right etc etc but as an aid to achievement (NOT a goal for/of its self)

More parenthesis please.

Also, to 'paraphrase' does not mean to twist the meaning of a statement so that it fits your agenda. Kennedy said no such thing.

The lipstick figure is correct.

[Drewster]

The amount of money spent was comparatively tiny. More money was spent in the USA by women buying lipstick in the same period.

I will take your word for that - although 25.4 billion dollars sounds like a lot of lipstick!

It wasn't a pissing contest IMO. It was, and remains, mankinds' finest acheivement.

Well I "thought" it was because Kennedy said (I paraphrase) "We will beat those dam Ruskies and go to the moon before 1970"

Although I (actually) wouldn't argue too much about:
Mankinds greatest achievement (moot but defendable)
and your (implied) view about risk, methodologies etc.

I do "defend" (and promote) good process/procedures/do it right etc etc but as an aid to achievement (NOT a goal for/of its self)

[bogeyman]

I really hate to write anything that could be interpreted as in defence or support of any "flavour of the month methodology" (particularly "Agile")

but I don't think "throw endless amounts of money and resources at the problem and keep pushing ahead no matter the risks involved - and somehow not manage to kill anyone, just to beat the Commies in a pissing contest" is something to be encouraged........

Actually, check the facts.

The amount of money spent was comparatively tiny. More money was spent in the USA by women buying lipstick in the same period.

Yes, they took risks (something that is anathema today).

It wasn't a pissing contest IMO. It was, and remains, mankinds' finest acheivement.

Those chaps knew how to do things, and do them right. It's an art we have lost.

We are bogged down and hog-tied by regulations and methodologies - the killers of creativity and originality.

NASA has lost more lives since they introduced bullshyte methodologies than they did in the pioneering days.

[DiscoStu]

I really hate to write anything that could be interpreted as in defence or support of any "flavour of the month methodology" (particularly "Agile")

but I don't think "throw endless amounts of money and resources at the problem and keep pushing ahead no matter the risks involved - and somehow not manage to kill anyone, just to beat the Commies in a pissing contest" is something to be encouraged........

Of course it's to be encouraged - endless budget & resources in a project sounds like a contractor gravy train to me

[Drewster]

Amazing how NASA put men on the moon without a single methodology.

I really hate to write anything that could be interpreted as in defence or support of any "flavour of the month methodology" (particularly "Agile")

but I don't think "throw endless amounts of money and resources at the problem and keep pushing ahead no matter the risks involved - and somehow not manage to kill anyone, just to beat the Commies in a pissing contest" is something to be encouraged........

[bogeyman]

Rubbish. I do get depressed with the idea that there is 'One True Path' and anybody who disagrees is a thicko or a heretic.
Just don't treat methodologies like a religion and you'll find that there are useful bits and not-so-useful bits in all of them. You still can't escape the fact that you have to be a competant PM/developer/tester whatever you use, and as so many of us are not, many projects fail.

Methodologies only exist so that snake oil companies can sell absurdly expensive training courses and documentation.

Miss the last hot methodology? Don't worry, there'll be another one along in a minute.

Amazing how NASA put men on the moon without a single methodology.

[Zippy]

Best I can do.

The sort of people who really dig Agile and Scrum and XP and all goes with it are the sort of people who attend flash mob events at Kings Cross station.

Rubbish. I do get depressed with the idea that there is 'One True Path' and anybody who disagrees is a thicko or a heretic.
Just don't treat methodologies like a religion and you'll find that there are useful bits and not-so-useful bits in all of them. You still can't escape the fact that you have to be a competant PM/developer/tester whatever you use, and as so many of us are not, many projects fail.

[swamp]

Where da "retch" smiley?

Best I can do.

The sort of people who really dig Agile and Scrum and XP and all goes with it are the sort of people who attend flash mob events at Kings Cross station.

[expat]

The fence is a row of spikes in preparation for the next sprint on the burndown chart. It's a long story, indeed a big task to tell to the customer, maybe even a technical debt. We should be able to pair on this and with a bit of ping-pong programming we can refactor to a suitable pattern.

Where da "retch" smiley?