Reply to: Anyone signed on the dole while benched?

[Cyberman]

I thought there was actually a responsibility to offer someone their old job back if you make them redundant, and an upturn means that the role becomes available again.

If you were an MP perhaps you could say that this was within the rules.

[Cyberman]

I thought there was actually a responsibility to offer someone their old job back if you make them redundant, and an upturn means that the role becomes available again.

... but if you are doing it to yourself it could be interpreted as a scam IMO.

[FunctionCall]

.. and it would look somewhat strange if you later employed yourself under the same company.

I thought there was actually a responsibility to offer someone their old job back if you make them redundant, and an upturn means that the role becomes available again.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Advantage Umbrella

This is where working for an umbrella company in a downturn has an advantage. Just ask for your P45 and sign on.

[Cyberman]

It would be, but you're chance of getting it accepted by HMIT is pretty close to nil - though you should be able to get away with statutory redundancy.

.. and it would look somewhat strange if you later employed yourself under the same company. Maybe if you completely shut the company you may get away with it though.

[ASB]

If you have money in the company, is it better to make yourself redundant, and pay it out as a (tax free) redundancy payment?

It would be, but you're chance of getting it accepted by HMIT is pretty close to nil - though you should be able to get away with statutory redundancy.

[HeadOfTesting]

Makes sense to me, here's to making myself redundant!

I looked into this during the 2001/2 market collapse and my accountant - who admittedly is very conservative - said that this was not possible/allowable as I was an 'owner-managed business'.

That said it may be one of those things that you can do in the hope that it doesn't get spotted. Or my accountant could simply have been wrong.

HeadOfTesting

[pleomax]

Some points on the above:

1) I think various people are confusing income related JSA (which is means tested) with contributions related JSA (which isn't). Contributions related JSA is meant to be a benefit that everyone is entitled to, whether they need it financially or not.

2) Generally to commit fraud there has to be some element of deception. If you are entirely honest about your situation, it's difficult to see how you can be accused of fraud. But put it down in writing if you want to be safe.

3) To be entitled to JSA you need to be unemployed or working less than 16 hours a week. So a few hours on sales and marketing each week (assuming you're honest about it) doesn't preclude you claiming.

And a question:
If you have money in the company, is it better to make yourself redundant, and pay it out as a (tax free) redundancy payment?

Makes sense to me, here's to making myself redundant!

[FunctionCall]

Some points on the above:

1) I think various people are confusing income related JSA (which is means tested) with contributions related JSA (which isn't). Contributions related JSA is meant to be a benefit that everyone is entitled to, whether they need it financially or not.

2) Generally to commit fraud there has to be some element of deception. If you are entirely honest about your situation, it's difficult to see how you can be accused of fraud. But put it down in writing if you want to be safe.

3) To be entitled to JSA you need to be unemployed or working less than 16 hours a week. So a few hours on sales and marketing each week (assuming you're honest about it) doesn't preclude you claiming.

And a question:
If you have money in the company, is it better to make yourself redundant, and pay it out as a (tax free) redundancy payment?

[KentPhilip]

£60 equals £1.50 an hour hardly worth getting involved in a moral argument of
whether to sign on.

Yes but you are not working full time are you, so it is more like £60/hour for 2 hours every 2 weeks (signing on).

If you are a job seeker are you allowed to look for only Contract work in order to work through your Ltd company?

I've just signed on, an I am allowed to yes.

What happens if the jobcentre now sends your CV to BT and HP and they both offer you a Permanent job as they need your skills at £21000 a year?

As far as I am aware, the jobcentre does not send out people's CV's.

[VectraMan]

Housing benefit

Anybody any experience of claiming housing benefit?

I have I reckon 8 months worth of minimum wage salary funds left in the company, so I presumably couldn't get JSA. But that £800pm would go a lot further if I didn't have to pay £625 of it in rent.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Congratulations on receiving £60 week before tax

Don't forget than if you start earning real money towards the end of the year
your £60 becomes about £48 nett.
£60 equals £1.50 an hour hardly worth getting involved in a moral argument of
whether to sign on.

If you are a job seeker are you allowed to look for only Contract work in order to work through your Ltd company?

What happens if the jobcentre now sends your CV to BT and HP and they both offer you a Permanent job as they need your skills at £21000 a year?

[HairyArsedBloke]

The downside is that you have to sign on every two weeks and have a full interview every 13 weeks, and after 6 months they will try to force you to take any job above minimum wage, and it does not have to be related to your skills or experience.

I’ve never really understood what they expect to happen in these cases. How can a highly skilled person be forced to ‘take’ a lowly job? Before someone can take a job it has to be offered to them. Where are all these employers that are desperate to hire grossly over qualified people for low skilled positions?

[Bagpuss]

I'm really surprised that nobody wants to hire you Chav!

[Cyberman]

I have claimed JSA. I completed the claim on-line by going here:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/eservice/#

You answer some questions on-line, then the system informs you that you will receive a call in the next couple of days. When the call came through, the woman asked me some more questions, then made an appointment for me at the local job centre. The appointment was for 9am Saturday. My wife said that must be a mistake, because they don't open on Saturdays. I turned up at 8.50 anyway. Sure enough, the door was locked, and the sign on the door gave the opening times as Monday to Friday. I saw a guy of about my own age lurking nearby, and I asked if the place was closed.

He said he also had an appointment for 9.00. It seemed they are now opening on Saturdays because of the exceptional demand. The conversation then went like this:

Me: This is the frist time I've ever claimed.
Him: Me too.

Me: I'm 57.
Him: Me too.

It turns out he's a designer in the car industry. He's been freelancing successfully for 25 years in the UK and abroad. Now the market for his skills has suddenly died. Sounds familiar. We both agreed that half the point of signing on is to get ourselves on the jobless stats, so that the severity of the situation isn't hidden.

The doors were unlocked on the dot of 9.00. By then at least half a dozen claimants were waiting to go in. The jobcentre is in a small commuter town. I didn't see the expected career claimants clutching cans of special brew, just a bunch of decent looking people that you'd expect to see on the train to London. To be honest, the staff looked more pikey than the claimants.

I was interviewed by a guy with pierced ears and BO. He got me to sign some forms, and said I should hear within 2 weeks. No-one asked me if I am a company director, let alone if the company is dormant. No-one asked to see a P45, which is just as well, because I haven't got one yet. He spotted that my last employment was with MySurname Consulting Ltd, but this just elicited a comment of "I see you worked for your own company".

Is it worth claiming?
As I have savings, I am only entitled to the non-means-tested benefit, which is £64.30 a week for up to a maximum of 6 months. This doesn't even cover our weekly shopping bill. I am still living on savings, but the way I look at it, it's £256 a month that's not coming out of savings.

National Insurance is, as the name implies, an insurance. If you had been paying an insurance company for income protection insurance, you wouldn't fail to claim when the opportunity arose. There is also the issue of getting onto the jobless stats.

Of course, I hope I'll have a contract before I even need to sign on again in 2 weeks time, but Jobserve isn't looking like a land of opportunity right now.

I signed on a few months ago and did have to fill in forms which asked whether I was a company director. As I've said before, though, the main thing is to have a P45 that shows you have paid NI, and that saves having many other questions being asked. If you have paid Class A NI for at least a year recently, you should qualify. If you wait too long you will fall out of the qualifying period.

Even if you fail to qualify for JSA, you will still probably qualify for NI tax credits, which is worth having, especially if you end up long-term unemployed. The downside is that you have to sign on every two weeks and have a full interview every 13 weeks, and after 6 months they will try to force you to take any job above minimum wage, and it does not have to be related to your skills or experience.