Social Mobility

[Mich the Tester]

We need policy to encourage the right type of graduates, from the sciences, maths, physics and geology. Not media studies, sci-fi and other bollox courses.

But fizzix is reelly diffycult man innit. AND u ave 2 go outdoors 2 do geology and it is cold and wet outdoors and I wanna be a merchant bankah cos dey urn a lot and sit indors and just chill wiv some hot pussy man.

I tell you, some kid said something like this to me recently when I suggested studying Geology

While you're at it, could you add business studies and 'international marketing management' to your list of 'bollox courses'?.

[Mich the Tester]

“Income inequality is down, the impact of your parents' background on your exam results is less than it was, so there are real signs of change.”

This could be interpreted to mean that lots of previously wealthy people have lost their jobs and businesses and that all schools are equally crap.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I dont much care anymore if its not different as long as my taxes go down! .....

If that means same as before but less[sic] Taxes on my hard working arse, then Tories get my vote

Good luck with that. Even Cybertory reckons taxes will rise under the next Tory government. They certainly did under the last one.

[Solidec]

I agree to a point, but there should always be room for expanding the sum of human knowledge. Not dopey subjects like basket weaving or Star Trek which add nothing, but perhaps little-known chunks of history, fine art in an onscure country, or the behaviour of worms. I think we'd become a narrow-minded nation of philistines if all study had to have an obvious money-making result.

I didnt mention money making anywhere.

I said appropriate skills. History, fine arts, literature are all skills with more inherent value than basket weaving. I just gave some examples of skills sorely lacking today.

basically a skills council which identifies areas of weakness in our society, economy, culture and sets funding levels for those subject areas accordingly.

[Doggy Styles]

Government needs to basically stop subsiding ANY university course that does not clearly add value to our economy.

Do remember that top up fees are just that, they form a smaller proprtion of the entire course fees that universities charge, with the government plugging the shortfall.

How does a government justify subsidising basket weaving or sci-fi studies?

If we want more engineering graduats we need to fully subsidise appropriate degrees and penalise the useless ones.

Ai bit of social engineering to get our skills abse where it needs to be for the future. You can bleat on with rhetoric all you want about investing in green technology and manufacturing, but if you don't have the qualified personeel to back it up you are going nowhere.

We need policy to encourage the right type of graduates, from the sciences, maths, physics and geology. Not media studies, sci-fi and other bollox courses.

I agree to a point, but there should always be room for expanding the sum of human knowledge. Not dopey subjects like basket weaving or Star Trek which add nothing, but perhaps little-known chunks of history, fine art in an onscure country, or the behaviour of worms. I think we'd become a narrow-minded nation of philistines if all study had to have an obvious money-making result.

[BoredBloke]

I heard that interview on the radio this morning also. He said that from 1970 to 2000 there had been massive cuts in the spend on education under the Tories. Obviously he failed to mention the fact that there were a number of Labour years in that time and there have been another 8 years of Labour power after that point.

[Solidec]

Entry to sixth form depends on the school. My son goes to a grammar and they demand As and Bs at GCSE. My daughter goes to a secondary, and they only demand 5 Cs.

When I were a lad, Cs and Ds at A-level still got you into a lot of universities, but I think that's because A-levels represented more of an achievement then.

I never knew anyone from my generation studying subjects like Sci Fi, Media or Flower Arranging at university.

Government needs to basically stop subsiding ANY university course that does not clearly add value to our economy.

Do remember that top up fees are just that, they form a smaller proprtion of the entire course fees that universities charge, with the government plugging the shortfall.

How does a government justify subsidising basket weaving or sci-fi studies?

If we want more engineering graduats we need to fully subsidise appropriate degrees and penalise the useless ones.

Ai bit of social engineering to get our skills abse where it needs to be for the future. You can bleat on with rhetoric all you want about investing in green technology and manufacturing, but if you don't have the qualified personeel to back it up you are going nowhere.

We need policy to encourage the right type of graduates, from the sciences, maths, physics and geology. Not media studies, sci-fi and other bollox courses.

[original PM]

lol history of art

when I was at uni me and the other science and engineering nerds would have lectures for at least 30 hours per week and then at least another 10 hours reading/prep work on top of that - add in a few nights in the observatory and you could 'work' a 60 hour week.

then you meet the history of art lot who go to the galleries on a thursday have a lecture on a tuesday and get stoned in between - and all the hotties did history of art.

i made such a bad degree choice!!!

although i now do not flip burgers for a living!

[minestrone]

Both my parents were born into the worst of the Glasgow slums during the 1930s but the education they got at school was of a far higher standard than we give children today. As a result both got into university, in those days universities hard to get into, and both went on to have very successful careers. As a result I was brought up in a very middle class household in a good area of Glasgow.

By the time it got to the 60s they had moved from working class to upper middle class because schools they went to were prepared to teach children and not take tulip from those who did not want to learn. It was nothing to do with government policy, new initiatives or having a laptop on every desk by the time of the next election.

[Doggy Styles]

Call me old fashioned and anti-progressive but when I was a lad you needed A's and B's at o Level to get to 6th form and the same again to get a place at Uni. Plus at least the subjects you studied had some real-life application.

Entry to sixth form depends on the school. My son goes to a grammar and they demand As and Bs at GCSE. My daughter goes to a secondary, and they only demand 5 Cs.

When I were a lad, Cs and Ds at A-level still got you into a lot of universities, but I think that's because A-levels represented more of an achievement then.

I never knew anyone from my generation studying subjects like Sci Fi, Media or Flower Arranging at university.

[Scotchpie]

Its okay saying that more kids these days can do well in their exams regardless of their parents social class but when there is a constant dumbing down of the educational system is it really an indication of NL improving social mobility?

I remember a few years back talking to the son of a friend of mine who was about to go off to Uni (despite the C's and D's at A level), when I asked him what he was studying he replied "Sci-Fi" and he wants to focus on Star Trek for his dissertation in three years time.

Call me old fashioned and anti-progressive but when I was a lad you needed A's and B's at o Level to get to 6th form and the same again to get a place at Uni. Plus at least the subjects you studied had some real-life application.

[Purple Dalek]

If New Labour say it, then almost certainly the opposite is the truth. And from what I see and hear social mobility has gone down.

Even a top labour person took their kid along to a paid for 'interview assessment'. Never needed that kind of thing for oxbridge years ago.

[ratewhore]

I dont much care anymore if its not different as long as my taxes go down! Beyond believing we can have anywhere near an ideal society anymore, its making the best of what you got.

If that means same as before but less Taxes on my hard working arse, then Tories get my vote.

Am sick and tired of the Welfare State, it's really pissing me off no end now.

Actually, that's probably a better way of putting it than I did.

[Solidec]

I dont much care anymore if its not different as long as my taxes go down! Beyond believing we can have anywhere near an ideal society anymore, its making the best of what you got.

If that means same as before but less Taxes on my hard working arse, then Tories get my vote.

Am sick and tired of the Welfare State, it's really pissing me off no end now.

[ratewhore]

Listened to the interview with Liam Byrne this morning on R4. Made me want to stab him in the face. A quote:

Liam Byrne, the Cabinet Office minister, said that boosting social mobility was Labour's "passion in politics, our core purpose."

He said: "After three decades of almost no progress ... now, for the first time, because of the investment we have made, since 2000 there are signs that things are beginning to change.

"Income inequality is down, the impact of your parents' background on your exam results is less than it was, so there are real signs of change. Today's plan is about how we step up the pace of change radically in the years to come," he told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme.

The bold text highlights typical NL bulltulip. And, more importantly, parents from Blackbird Leys in Oxford (a typical council estate) were interviewed who said they wanted their kids to go to work and into apprenticeships after GCSE's. If the kids are happy with that, whats the problem?

The country needs sparkies and plumbers and other manual trades such as those. Is it really a social issue if some kids don't want to go to Uni?

And anyway, NL have missed the point. While they still offer a myriad of benefits and other financial reasons not to work, why should people bother.

Rant over. Bring on the election. And BrilloPad, I'll do it for you - 'The Tories won't be any different'...