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Previously on "If you think the UK economy is bad, look at this"
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostBut I didn't expect someone on here to seriously believe that auditing accounts, following the rule of law, transparency and trust are a hindrance to good government.
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostWhat did you expect. The boy is a cretin.
His only real ambition in life is to be highest poster on this forum.
But I didn't expect someone on here to seriously believe that auditing accounts, following the rule of law, transparency and trust are a hindrance to good government.
Bizarre.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostThat's all waffle. You really are deliberately ignorant on the EU, aren't you. I'm wasting my time arguing with that.
His only real ambition in life is to be highest poster on this forum.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostThat's all waffle.
What's not waffle is that euro now a successful reserve currency used to hedge against dollar. That's the achievement of eurozone members (growing in numbers). I don't give a tulip if they did not get audited, they have great success and should be helped rather than hindered like UK does.Last edited by AtW; 3 January 2009, 16:20.
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That's all waffle. You really are deliberately ignorant on the EU, aren't you. I'm wasting my time arguing with that.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostNo, it doesn't. The UK accounts are audited AND SIGNED OFF by the National Audit Office.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6078982.stm
I think this situation is grossly misrepresented and probably some politics at play there.
Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostAtW, you are talking like a third world dictator - "it's only a few billion"
Suppose your bank manager dips in and out of people's accounts, taking money.
EU is justified - the only big thorn is UK's position that is basically it wants benefits of the team play but not responsibilities. IMO UK should pull out of EU completely OR play like team player.
IMO - if you are not in eurozone you should not be getting benefits of free trade and other perks (visa free travel maybe). Then UK citizens can decide if this all is worth being in EU.
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Originally posted by AtW View PostAnd no fraud takes place in UK budget?
Originally posted by AtW View Post£17 bln split many ways is what, maybe £2-3 bln max for UK? I am far more concerned about what UK Govt is doing here with far bigger sums.
These people don't just run the European Union budget, they run the European Union. They want more powers over our laws and policies. If we join their currency they'll run much of our economy too.
I wouldn't go anywhere near them.
Suppose your bank manager dips in and out of people's accounts, taking money. And when you find out and complain to the police, the police hassle you until you withdraw the complaint. And if you persist in complaining, they fit you up on a paedo charge. Would you keep your account there?
I happen to believe in good governance, and the EU fail the most basic features of that, which are proper accounting and obeying the rule of law.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View Postno accounts were available for some £17 billion in structural aid projects.
If EU is breaking the law then UK should make efforts to sue them, use MI6 to expose all that scandal - nothing of this sort is happening, your audit issue is important but in a big picture it's no reason to adandon successful EU integration - success of euro currency that is now proper reserve one just proves how wrong UK was to oppose it. If some French politicians got bribes in order for this to happen is not sometihng that would bother me in the least given the achievements of the project - the amount of waste in UK is by far bigger than in EU and by far more directly related to me (as UK taxpayer).
Maybe UK should pull out of EU completely, at least this would be consistent action.
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AtW, I don't think you realise what a crock of shyte the EU is. I can copy and paste too. The following is revealing, and remember, this is only about fraud. EU waste is even bigger.
"Opportunities for fraud are open and they are taken advantage of. The most elementary precautions are neither taken nor even contemplated. The reverse is the case. People such as myself, who attempt to bring openness and accountability to the system, are pursued, suspended and dismissed." - (Marta Andreasen. Whistle-blower and ex Chief Accountant to the European Commission)
Eventually (and inevitably) Mrs Andreasen was sacked, on the grounds of 'disloyalty'. She has since dedicatedly toured Europe, explaining to the public exactly how chaotic accounting is within the EU, and the EU's inability to apply even basic accounting rules to itself.
Another story - The entire European Commission, led by Jaques Santer, had to resign after an EU Committee of Independent Experts reported evidence of administrative failure, financial irregularities and nepotism. It found that millions of pounds worth of funds from the humanitarian aid office had disappeared, while no accounts were available for some £17 billion in structural aid projects. The report gave details of fraudulently altered tender specifications, inflated fees, illegal payments, open fraud, evasion of tax and social security obligations, paid personnel who could not be accounted for, and a pervasive sub-culture of petty graft, favouritism and criminality.
The Dutch official who reported the fraud to the Commission was promptly suspended from his post and subjected to disciplinary action. This action led to his dismissal.
All Commissions since Jaques Santer's team have promised to fight corrupton, and all have failed. The present anti-corruption commissioner, Siim Kallas, was himself embroiled in a major financial scandal in the 1990's.
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Breakdown of EU budget expenditure (from wikipedia):
"In the 2006 budget, the largest single expenditure item was agriculture (direct aid, export refunds, storage, rural development and other) with around 46.7% of the total budget. Next came structural actions (Objective 1, Objective 2, Objective 3, other structural measures, community initiatives, innovatory measures and technical assistance, other specific structural operations and the cohesion fund) with approximately 30.4% of the total. Internal policies (training, youth, culture, audiovisual, media, information, energy, Euratom nuclear safeguards and environment, consumer protection, internal market, industry and Trans-European networks, research and technological development, other internal policies) took up around 8.5%. Administration accounted for around 6.3%. External actions, the pre-accession strategy, compensations and reserves brought up the rear with approximately 4.9%, 2.1%, 1% and 0.1% respectively."
So, essentially two big items take up 77% of the budget - these are historical items I think, I don't see disaster if they are not audited yet - it was clear that money is essentially wasted from UKs point of view anyway, given issues with food pricing I actually think having agrocultural policy that supports EU farmers is a good thing, even if those farmers are mainly French - UK does not want to support its own farmers so should stop whining about others wishing to do so.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostBudgets themselves aren't audited, accounts for the budget are. The resultant expenditure from the budget is audited by the National Audit Office.
Of course it is debated properly, and the opposition has every power to change it if they can convince enough government MPs to vote with them.
That, I'm afraid, is democracy. You're changing the subject again, because parliamentary debate has nothing to do with auditing accounts.
The EU is a gravy train for failed, deceitful and incompetent politicians, the EU Common Agricultural Policy is one of the best examples of rip-off in the west, and how Spain ended up with fishing quotas in the Irish Sea is beyond reason.
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Originally posted by AtW View PostI've done it before but that stuff is safely buried deep in the forum. Impossible to find since forum search does not like short words and my post count is so high that it's hard to check all my posts
I'll trade +1 ATW point for +5 Xeno points, discounts available on large transactions...
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Originally posted by AtW View PostFirst of all EU budget is very small
Originally posted by AtW View Postsecondly can you point out me to the direction of UK budget being audited?
Originally posted by AtW View PostIt is not even debated properbly in parliament since the opposition has no power to change it!
Originally posted by AtW View PostUK budget is a lot bigger than UK and personally myself (as UK taxpayer) I am far more interested in UK budget audit than any other budget - EU, Russian, Honduras or whatever.
Originally posted by AtW View PostIt's not the Brussels that rips people off in this country - it is Gordon Brown, being in euro zone would help prevent a number of dirty tricks politicians use to hide their mismanagement.
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Originally posted by voodooflux View PostIs that a little piece of CUK history in the making right there?
What are they worth compared to Xeno Geek Points?
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