Reply to: Another thieving parasite banker

[Mich the Tester]

Course its still a dutch problem.

Well in this example yes, but incompetent management and bonusses for f**king up is a problem that isn't unique to NL.

[BolshieBastard]

I live in NL and pay Dutch taxes.

Perhaps you should show in your profile then that you're not a UK national and dont live in the UK to avoid future confusion?

[BolshieBastard]

RBS (UK bank bailed out by UK taxpayers) owns part of ABN Amro. Hardly Dutch problem is it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...f-1192851.html

Course its still a dutch problem.

[Mich the Tester]

Hence the "frustration and impotence" I mentioned.

Well what do you expect? Do you expect Dutch taxpayers to rejoice at the prospect of millions of euros of taxes being spent on a bonus for the director of a failed company?

[deano]

…and the fact that my taxes are being used to rescue a business while the directors are being rewarded with multi million euro f**k-up-bonusses as if there’s nothing wrong.

Hence the "frustration and impotence" I mentioned.

[Mich the Tester]

It's the "in your view" that lets it down AtW. It is only in your view (and in the view of like minded people).

So we get to the bottom line. Can I summarise...

1) There has been regulatory failure
2) No evidence has yet been presented of criminal activity by bank directors
3) You - and others - think something criminal must have taken place but you have no evidence for that.

And that's about it. Nothing much except that some people on this forum don't like bank directors and would like them imprisoned because of a vague feeling of moral righteousness, combined with frustration, impotence and political dogma.

…and the fact that my taxes are being used to rescue a business while the directors are being rewarded with multi million euro f**k-up-bonusses as if there’s nothing wrong.

[deano]

Yes.
$500 bln I think were Lehmans obligations, they stopped being a bank and became hedge fund - massive failure of regulation but also criminal negligence on behalf of the management of the bank in my view.

It's the "in your view" that lets it down AtW. It is only in your view (and in the view of like minded people).

So we get to the bottom line. Can I summarise...

1) There has been regulatory failure
2) No evidence has yet been presented of criminal activity by bank directors
3) You - and others - think something criminal must have taken place but you have no evidence for that.

And that's about it. Nothing much except that some people on this forum don't like bank directors and would like them imprisoned because of a vague feeling of moral righteousness, combined with frustration, impotence and political dogma.

[AtW]

I live in NL and pay Dutch taxes.

greedy bankers'

[Mich the Tester]

WTF are you whining at? Its a dutch bank FFS.

You're hardly paying dutch taxes from Blackpool, are you?

I live in NL and pay Dutch taxes.

[AtW]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...f-1192851.html

"Royal Bank of Scotland's potential £400m loss from the world's biggest alleged investment fraud came from the investment banking business it bought from ABN Amro.

The exposure to loans used to leverage the investments of its clients in Bernard Madoff's giant $50bn (£33bn) pyramid scheme is the latest blow delivered to RBS from its purchase of ABN last year, a deal which accounted for about a third of RBS's £5.9bn of first-half write-downs. Investor anger at the takeover, which left RBS in a weak capital position, helped prompt the departure of the bank's chief executive, Sir Fred Goodwin, last month. "

That's the basis for criminal case - anyone (like bank, hedge fund) who put a lot of money into Madoff ponzi scheme did not do due diligence.

[AtW]

WTF are you whining at? Its a dutch bank FFS.

You're hardly paying dutch taxes from Blackpool, are you?

RBS (UK bank bailed out by UK taxpayers) owns part of ABN Amro. Hardly Dutch problem is it?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...f-1192851.html

[BolshieBastard]

I'm not going to translate this, but this **** has presided over a bank that was nationalised by the Dutch state and is now subsidized by my taxes and is leaving with a 'leaving compensation' of 8 million euros. The business he runs has just recieved the biggest welfare cheque in the history of the Netherlands and he's oing off with milions. This is f**king revolting. People get wound up about so-called benefit scroungers and sinlge mothers on income support, but their contribution to the general bloodsucking effort is nothing compared to the senior management of banks.

Should we just stop using the word 'banker' and replace it with 'tapeworm'?

http://www.nrc.nl/economie/article21...oor_topman_ABN

WTF are you whining at? Its a dutch bank FFS.

You're hardly paying dutch taxes from Blackpool, are you?

[AtW]

Do you know what derivatives are, AtW? Do you know how hedge funds work?

Yes.

[QUOTE=deano;726665]I have some news for you. Hedge funds are still being invested in. Banks and pension funds are still using them. Right now. /QUOTE]

Right now hedge funds are in huge decline - overall investment is negative (some obviously still get money), given how non-transparent they are and Madoff scam I'd expect more of outflows to happen next year and by the end of 2010 hedge funds will be not as numerous as they used to.

What needs looking at is the regulatory system to make sure that the tools are being used properly.

Agreed. My point is that Lehman (and many others) did not use derivatives (I accept options/futures) for what they were designed for - they used them for speculation on ridiculous scale: $500 bln I think were Lehmans obligations, they stopped being a bank and became hedge fund - massive failure of regulation but also criminal negligence on behalf of the management of the bank in my view.

[deano]

It sure as hell won't happen in the UK - and I doubt very much for rest of EU, though I would expect much tigher regulations there to prevent banks taking on derivatives junk and other stuff.

Do you know what derivatives are, AtW? Do you know how hedge funds work?

I have some news for you. Hedge funds are still being invested in. Banks and pension funds are still using them. Right now. At this very moment. Because they are useful tools for financial investment.

As with any tool it is a matter of using the correct one for the job at hand. It is not the fault of the tool, and those people using them correctly should not be prevented from doing so.

What needs looking at is the regulatory system to make sure that the tools are being used properly.

[AtW]

Oh I don't have a problem with investigations. In fact I am looking forward to the Congressional Hearings on this, and if they start to dig, then the pressure will be on Europe and the UK to do the same.

It sure as hell won't happen in the UK - and I doubt very much for rest of EU, though I would expect much tigher regulations there to prevent banks taking on derivatives junk and other stuff.

What I do find uncomfortable is the assumption that laws have been broken

It is always an assumption when investigations takes place - reasonable suspicion here in my view is present because of the facts - banks almost gone bust, this is not a normal thing.

I don't have a problem with people being rich (bankers or not) - I have a problem when such riches however are obtained when everyone is getting screwed by that person who gets rich at the expense of others, those bankers (not all) essentially engaged in running Ponzi schemes - just look at how many of them put money into Madoff fund and were taking out 12% per annum without asking questions, ffs, one hedge fund put almost all money into it - $7.5 bln, just what it says about risk management there?

Not all banks were involved in this deep, some more and some less - but this needs to be investigated with clear objective - bring criminal charges against people who run those banks.